--- Log opened Wed Nov 28 00:00:36 2018
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06:41 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/1067785029525344256
06:41 < yoleaux> @EricTopol @Dereklowe This was not criminal. (@kanzure, in reply to tw:1067782212311965698)
06:41 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/Dereklowe/status/1067785566626955264
06:41 < yoleaux> @kanzure @EricTopol I'd be glad to hear a defense of that position, but a simple assertion of it isn't enough to make your case. (@Dereklowe, in reply to tw:1067785029525344256)
06:42 < kanzure> "Predicting the mutations generated by repair of Cas9-induced double-strand breaks" https://www.nature.com/articles/nbt.4317
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06:51 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/GaetanBurgio/status/1067674007409897472
06:51 < yoleaux> The study was funded initially from the university and then from He's own salary and with some startup money to cover the medical treatment + sequencing cost. (@GaetanBurgio, in reply to tw:1067673686172360706)
06:52 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/alchemytoday/status/1067684281030455297
06:52 < yoleaux> @GaetanBurgio What decision process led the organizers to put him on stage before calling the police? There are other patients out there *right now* who are being exploited and can be saved from him. (@alchemytoday, in reply to tw:1067657557114679296)
06:53 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/EllenFoxman/status/1067760284926951425
06:53 < yoleaux> Can’t stop thinking about gene editing of human babies in secret and with very little safety oversight...is this going to be rewarded with a high impact publication and scientific accolades? What happens now determines what happens next. https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/1067646854077325313 (@EllenFoxman)
06:53 < kanzure> "rewarded" hah... is that how these people think?
07:24 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/BiotechMongoose/status/1067587804304039937
07:24 < yoleaux> You know, I didn't have "George Daley goes off the deep end" on my bingo card. George Church, of course, but that's like the free space in the middle of the card. https://twitter.com/antonioregalado/status/1067585399046979585 (@BiotechMongoose)
07:25 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/BWJones/status/1067787710172082176
07:25 < yoleaux> @MHendr1cks This is horrifying. I’ve typed several Tweets about this and deleted them. But fundamentally feel this work is a crime against humanity and I’m disturbed that the #GeneEditSummit has not taken a stronger position on this. (@BWJones, in reply to tw:1067783164721094656)
07:25 < kanzure> "CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY" ooookay.
07:26 < kanzure> do these people not realize what actual crimes against humanity are? like... torture.
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07:47 < archels> https://rebelbio.co/
07:47 < archels> .gc "high.impact.babies"
07:47 < yoleaux> archels: Sorry, that command (.gc) crashed.
07:49 < archels> kanzure: is anyone actually monitoring these babies over the course of their continued life?
07:54 < kanzure> he plans to do some bloodwork and other tests as they grow up, but obviously can't force them to do anything once they hit 18 years or whatever
07:58 < kanzure> https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2018/11/27/chinas-crispr-babies-might-have-wasted-our-last-chance/
07:58 < kanzure> "Short answer is, no. Long answer is: we were all getting excited as state media (People’s Daily, The Paper, etc.) reported on the news on a fairly neutral tone. Those pieces were deleted a few hours later, as it surfaced that He Jiankui didn’t make the CRISPR babies through his university research. Oh no, he had gone rogue, cooperating with a hospital called Harmonicare, ...
07:58 < kanzure> ...深圳和美妇儿科医院. A maternity hospital, owned by the infamous, and I mean infamous, Putian hospital conglomerate. 莆田系."
07:58 < kanzure> "If you search for the news in China, you don’t get “ethics” or “horror” or “brave new world”. No, all you get is “Those fucking Putian guys have gone crazy!!”, again and again, and again. If this had been a state-run project, nobody would be saying anything. Yes, some western educated scientists would protest. But the mood would have been “oh, wow. Cool.”. That was the ...
07:59 < kanzure> ...general reaction of 90% of people when they first read the news, before the details started to trickle down. But once the Putian meme was out, most people in China wanted to grab Mr. He and tear him down to pieces."
07:59 < kanzure> "Putian is a small town in coastal Fujian province. There’s nothing special about it, besides them being Fujianese, and thus a bunch of cutthroat money-grabbers with no sense of ethics and morals. Yes, nobody likes the Fujianese, especially in China. For some reason the Putianese have a virtual monopoly of private hospitals in China; or at least that’s what people in the street will tell ...
07:59 < Phil> i wonder who else was into it, and he was just the figurehead
07:59 < kanzure> ...you. Supposedly they created a good political patronage network under Jiang Zemin in the 1990s, and since then, no private hospital can get an operating license in China if they’re not part of the Putian mafia.
07:59 < kanzure> "
08:00 < kanzure> "Having a monopoly, and being (again, that’s the stereotype) genetically evil, the Putianese run hospitals are famous in China for outrageous prices and making up diseases so they can do expensive surgery to cure them. Allegations of baby theft and organ trafficking are also common. Again, I don’t know how true. I assume that the prices are high, and yes, unnecessary surgery happens, so ...
08:00 < kanzure> ...the anger they have caused through those two things have escalated into Putianese doctors eating babies for breakfast and selling the organs to the Jews or something. Again, true or not, the street believes it, and that is newsworthy indeed."
08:00 < kanzure> "It surprised no one that He Jiankui did his research through a Putian-owned hospital. Those guys will do anything for money."
08:00 < kanzure> hmmmm
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08:01 < kanzure> "China was kinda ok with gene editing, but by associating the technology with the most hated institution in China, he could very much have forced the hand of the Chinese government and have it effectively banned for good."
08:39 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/MadScientistPhD/status/1067817076755173376
08:39 < yoleaux> @kanzure @BWJones @MHendr1cks Creating humans with potential (likely) serious defects definitely fits under category K. As well as (possibly A/C/F), depending on how/if these babies develop. (@MadScientistPhD, in reply to tw:1067802327703273474)
08:43 < kanzure> "serious defects".... except there was lots of genome sequencing.
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12:26 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/SGottliebFDA/status/1067861378063585280
12:26 < yoleaux> Certain uses of science should be judged intolerable, and cause scientists to be cast out. The use of CRISPR to edit human embryos or germ line cells should fall into that bucket. Anything less puts the science and the entire scientific enterprise at risk. https://www.biocentury.com/bc-extra/politics-policy/2018-11-28/%E2%80%98tepid%E2%80%99-response-crispr-embryo-editing-could-lead- (@SGottliebFDA)
12:37 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3bac66c3 Bryan Bishop: add some people >> 
12:39 < kanzure> https://theconversation.com/the-road-to-enhancement-via-human-gene-editing-is-paved-with-good-intentions-107677
12:46 < kanzure> music! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4D6wU2dmnk
13:08 < kanzure> https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/11/i-feel-obligation-be-balanced-noted-biologist-comes-defense-gene-editing-babies
13:10 < kanzure> "I’d just as well not hang myself out to dry with someone I barely know, but I feel an obligation to be balanced about it. I’m sitting in the middle and everyone else is so extreme that it makes me look like his buddy. He’s just an acquaintance. But it seems like a bullying situation to me. The most serious thing I’ve heard is that he didn’t do the paperwork right. He wouldn’t be ...
13:10 < kanzure> ...the first person who got the paperwork wrong. It’s just that the stakes are higher. If it had gone south and someone had been damaged, maybe there would be some point. Like what happened with Jesse Gelsinger [who died in a 1999 gene therapy experiment]. But is this a Jesse Gelsinger or a Louise Brown [the first baby born through in vitro fertilization] event? That’s probably what it boils ...
13:10 < kanzure> ...down to."
13:10 < kanzure> "People have said there’s a moratorium on germline editing and I contributed to reports that called for that, but a moratorium is not a permanent ban forever. It’s a checklist of what you have to do."
13:11 < kanzure> "The unmet medical need is there is no cure or vaccine for HIV."
13:21 < archels> .title https://github.com/ReScience/ReScience-submission/pull/46
13:21 < yoleaux> Review Request: Senden Schuecker Hahne Diesmann Goebel by MSenden · Pull Request #46 · ReScience/ReScience-submission · GitHub
13:22 < archels> discussion thread about: do you include the whole neural simulator library in the rescience repository when you're doing replicable science?
13:25 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/webmasterdave/status/1067025478987460609
13:25 < yoleaux> Should genetically unedited babies be regulated? Darwinian malware churns out around 350,000 pain-ridden genetic experiments each day. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/26/chinese-scientist-creates-worlds-first-genetically-edited-babies/ #suffering #bioethics #CRISPR (@webmasterdave)
13:25 < kanzure> archels: no you just maintain archives and make sure they exist
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14:22 < kanzure> https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=diyhpl.us&src=typd
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15:18 < kanzure> pdf text extraction stuff https://aws.amazon.com/textract/
15:18 < kanzure> "Amazon Textract is a service that automatically extracts text and data from scanned documents. Amazon Textract goes beyond simple optical character recognition (OCR) to also identify the contents of fields in forms and information stored in tables."
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16:08 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/antonioregalado/status/1067815776470601730
16:08 < yoleaux> What are the stakes? Ten years ago China *executed* the former head of its FDA for approving fake medicine. https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/11/business/worldbusiness/11execute.html (@antonioregalado)
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18:36 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=d8c97e66 Bryan Bishop: transcript: george daley on pathways to clinical use of human germline editing >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/human-genome-editing-summit/2018-hong-kong/george-daley-genome-editing-pathways-to-translation/
18:38 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=43852846 Bryan Bishop: tweeter link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/human-genome-editing-summit/2018-hong-kong/george-daley-genome-editing-pathways-to-translation/
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19:05 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=17eb4c23 Bryan Bishop: add Q&A >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/human-genome-editing-summit/2018-hong-kong/george-daley-genome-editing-pathways-to-translation/
19:13 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/derek___so/status/1067978072362639360
19:13 < yoleaux> I'm not taking conference notes in the form of tweets anymore, but worth noting that they just emailed us all to say "Jiankui He has withdrawn from tomorrow afternoon’s breakout session on embryo and germline editing" #GeneEditSummit (@derek___so)
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19:22 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/SCEdmunds/status/1067968796294471681
19:22 < yoleaux> Ah, back to more innocent times when rogue scientists were only cloning embryonic stem cells #GeneEditSummit https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtIv9D_UUAAVu1o.jpg (@SCEdmunds)
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19:25 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/PeterFRMills/status/1067957771516035072
19:25 < yoleaux> .@sarahwchan asks: if genome edited babies are healthy, who has been harmed by the intervention #GeneEditSummit (@PeterFRMills)
19:26 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/SCEdmunds/status/1067948919114485760
19:26 < yoleaux> What the press area looks like when He Jiankui confirms he’s not attending the #GeneEditSummit today https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtId37jUcAEaEt4.jpg (@SCEdmunds)
19:26 < kanzure> wow. hah.
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