--- Log opened Tue Jan 15 00:00:21 2019
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06:04 < kanzure> "Anti-CRISPR: discovery, mechanism and function" https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro.2017.120
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06:50 < kanzure> "Transcriptomic evidence for dense peptidergic neuromodulation networks in mouse cortex" https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2019/01/13/519694
06:51 < kanzure> .wik neuropeptide receptor
06:51 < yoleaux> "A neuropeptide receptor is a type of peptide receptor which binds one or more neuropeptides." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropeptide_receptor
06:51 < kanzure> .title https://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/reframing/
06:51 < yoleaux> Reframing Superintelligence: Comprehensive AI Services as General Intelligence - Future of Humanity Institute
06:53 < kanzure> https://www.fhi.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/Reframing_Superintelligence_FHI-TR-2019-1.1-1.pdf
07:17 < kanzure> er.. that was a waste of time.
07:34 < kanzure> https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/iuybRR8xqbF92J2cK/a-general-framework-for-evaluating-aging-research-part-1
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08:51 < fenn> anti-genetic engineering whackjobs could just get Anti-CRISPR installed in their kid
08:53 < fenn> cheap SDR transmit capability: https://hackernoon.com/osmo-fl2k-a-15-dtv-transmitter-fm-radio-hijack-and-gps-spoofing-device-68ac08ba7d76
08:53 < kanzure> i think an injection of crispr into the bloodstream should do the trick?
08:54 < kanzure> well i mean cas9
08:54 < fenn> that's not very permanent
08:54 < fenn> you really want a germline change, to prevent any descendants from getting genetic upgrades
08:56 < fenn> how you gonna keep em down on the farm
08:56 < kanzure> to really prevent genetic changes, i think the uterus would have to sequence the embryo's genome and then reject the embryo if there's discrepancies
08:56 < fenn> but what about hash collisions discovered by quantum biological computers
08:56 < kanzure> cellular defense to gene editing.. hrm. i mean the problem is that there's too many gene editing methods.
08:57 < kanzure> anti-mutation superpower is basically anti-cancer anyway
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08:57 < fenn> also good for making space marines
08:58 < kanzure> yashgaroth any ideas for a cellular defense to all forms of gene editing?
09:00 < kanzure> oh you could do the recoding trick i guess, and hope that nobody decyphers your variation
09:03 < yashgaroth> if it's for preventing your descendants from getting modifications, then it's more difficult...aside from expressing inhibitors to every known editing protein, in every cell in the body, you'd have to alter the DNA repair pathways though that'd cause all kinds of problems
09:03 < yashgaroth> maybe combined with some super-active NHEJ complex from another species, like that radiation-tolerant bacteria that gets its DNA blasted apart a million times a day
09:07 < yashgaroth> but for protecting your descendants, if you're assuming 20-30 years of biotech progress and hostile actors constantly trying to sneak genes into your childrens, then it'd be tough
09:09 < kanzure> far future you could have protected regions of dna monitored by other sections that replace the segment once it's modified
09:09 < fenn> has this problem even been solved in regular non-biological electronic computers?
09:09 < fenn> even theoretically
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09:10 < kanzure> read-only memory?
09:10 < fenn> mumble mumble trusted computing
09:12 < fenn> given enough time, a thief can crack any safe. it's not possible to prevent edits to bare DNA. however, there may be a variety of ways to ensure that the code you're running is considered "valid" by some process
09:13 < fenn> such that a small edit would be rejected
09:13 < fenn> removing the entire apparatus would be a workaround, but there may be political institutions that require the apparatus to be in place
09:14 < kanzure> this is going to get as dirty as genome DRM
09:14 < fenn> yes, it's a horrible future and one i'd want to avoid, but i can see why some people would find it desirable
09:15 < fenn> you wouldn't want your president under soviet genetic mind control, or whatever
09:15 < kanzure> blue team definitely hasn't been pulling its weight in this area
09:17 < kanzure> realistically you didn't know before what genetic anomalies were running in that brain anyway
09:17 < kanzure> so it's not like our lack of control of the situation should be surprising
09:19 < fenn> you wouldn't expect a random baseline human presidential candidate to go into a highly suggestible state upon eating borscht and caviar
09:20 < kanzure> genetics doesn't work that quickly
09:20 < yashgaroth> the genome is a rich history of arms races already; I suppose a switch that kills the cell after detecting an edit would be undesirable for the host, though possibly easier to implement than other countermeasures
09:23 < yashgaroth> but if red team's goal is the betterment and/or control of the target, a Dead Hand type of approach might be an effective deterrent
09:23 < fenn> what is Dead Hand?
09:23 < yashgaroth> soviet plan for a system that launches the nukes if no one tells it not to, because they've been nuked already
09:24 < kanzure> dead man switch
09:24 < yashgaroth> I'm looking for a better analogy
09:27 < fenn> "The whole point of the doomsday machine...is lost if you keep it a secret!"
09:28 < yashgaroth> but assuming that it's easier to simply detect edits than to counteract them, and that the evil gene-editing scientists want the target to live, then it provides protection (if the editors know about it, naturally)
09:29 < yashgaroth> and if these theoretical scientists wanted the target dead, then they'd just whip up a superpathogen instead of trying to sneak in some genes
09:29 < fenn> so they just turn green instead of exploding into a pile of quivering goo
09:29 < yashgaroth> oh I guess that might work too, though I'm a fan of goo
09:30 < fenn> if genetic spamvertising is rampant, you may have no choice but for an infected cell to suicide, otherwise everyone is green all the time
09:31 < fenn> also green people would be discriminated against
09:32 < fenn> the infected individual could simply be a vector to attack the real target, say a low ranking aide with access to a secure bunker
09:32 < yashgaroth> everyone gets the ability to control their skin pigmentation like cuttlefish, but it constantly plays coca cola ads across their arms and face
09:33 < fenn> coca-cola logo sores popping up like measles
09:33 < yashgaroth> hell you could probably make people smell like coca cola
09:34 < fenn> coca-cola milk, gotta get the babies addicted early
09:35 < fenn> it would have to be vanilla coke of course
09:36 < fenn> "A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works."
09:37  * nsh smiles
09:40 < yashgaroth> hey if the egalitarians want to make sure everyone gets access, then an infectious gene therapy vector is the only way forward...if it's ad-supported, then that's just the hell they've carved out for themselves
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09:56 < nsh> heh
10:19 < kanzure> a reaction in response to edits to notify the user that edits are happening could be a nice feature
10:37  * nsh nods
10:37 < nsh> might be a lot of notifications eventually
10:44 < nmz787> .title http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-01/15/c_137745115.htm
10:44 < yoleaux> Moon sees first cotton-seed sprout - Xinhua | English.news.cn
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18:33 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/dnlongen/status/1084968061432709121
18:33 < yoleaux> Oh my. CVE-2018-20685 - An SCP client app allows a remote SCP server to modify permissions of the target directory. CVE-2019-6111 - A malicious SCP server can overwrite arbitrary files in the SCP client target directory...for example .ssh/authorized_keys. https://www.zdnet.com/article/scp-implementations-impacted-by-36-years-old-security-flaws/ (@dnlongen)
18:53 < fenn> ouch
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 16 00:00:22 2019