--- Log opened Sat Feb 02 00:00:38 2019 00:01 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-86-49-16-65.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:15 -!- kim123 [~kim@154.121.8.23] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:24 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:28 -!- helleshin [~talinck@cpe-174-97-113-184.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:38 -!- kim123 [~kim@154.121.8.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:33 -!- jtimon [~quassel@92.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:34 < nsh> would you fly to the UK if an event could be convened in Cambridge on the ethics of human germline modification and designer babies? 05:34 < nsh> ( kanzure, et al) 05:34 < nsh> i think with the right letters being sent to the right people something like this could be made to happen 05:35 < nsh> i will of course moderate in my capacity as the only person who has singularly mastered ethics and morality 05:35 < nsh> kiddin' on 05:43 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plquspeephzsuhjc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:04 -!- Someguy [aed10609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.209.6.9] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:05 -!- Someguy [aed10609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.209.6.9] has quit [Client Quit] 06:06 -!- Someguy [aed10609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.209.6.9] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:17 -!- Someguy [aed10609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.209.6.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:43 < fenn> i can't imagine any event about ethics of human germline modification that doesn't involve condemning anyone who would actually do it 06:43 < fenn> so i don't see the point 06:44 -!- uniera [uniera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/uniera] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:54 < mrdata|> fenn, dont you want roundup-ready babies? 07:33 < nsh> well 07:34 < nsh> that's why it would matter quite a bit how the event and conversation is framed 07:34 < nsh> which is why i was only half joking about moderating 07:34 < nsh> but that i'm one to tip the scales but sometimes you do have to continually recalibrate them 07:59 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@cpe-66-27-127-185.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:21 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:05 < archels> haha, Church told you to get FDA approval? 09:40 < yashgaroth> I think he mentioned it during our conversation, but hey he's gotta cover his ass in the press 09:49 < kanzure> nsh: i would be interested in organizing a conference for people who are explicitly interested in proceeding with germline genetic engineering 09:49 < kanzure> nsh: i believe the opposition has enough forums to voice their concerns 09:49 * nsh nods 09:50 < nsh> it wouldn't be great form to just have people who all agree then simulate a debate 09:50 < nsh> but it could be a reasonable demographic 09:51 < kanzure> well it's not about agreement it's about making progress on technical details 09:51 < nsh> sure 09:51 < nsh> but you'd want ot have someone halfway skeptical to keep the others honest 09:52 < nsh> a bit of adversariality is like a pinch of salt. helps any meal 09:53 < kanzure> it is healthy to have spaces free of politics, and you should respect them for what they are 10:13 < nsh> sure 10:13 < nsh> but politics isn't a thing you can completely isolate yourself from while making meaningful changes in the world 10:13 < nsh> your meaningful changes are politics 10:13 < nsh> people will respond to them politically 10:13 < nsh> this can be inured against but not avoided completely 10:14 < nsh> politics, you'll note, found bitcoin eventually 10:14 < nsh> and it requires constant efforts to avoid the toxicity affecting the mission 10:14 < nsh> as regards core development 10:14 < nsh> do not expect things to be any easier :) 10:42 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plquspeephzsuhjc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:22 -!- jtimon [~quassel@92.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:30 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31 < nmz787> even yesterday a conversation with a friend after he read the email, turned into morals/ethics discussion... and the fact that we don't know how a lot of mods will play out in non-obvious ways. But I said it still comes back to the technical problem of how do we make progress, while ensuring we aren't bringing more suffering on the world. It's easy to speculate on an amount of suffering a proposed 11:31 < nmz787> solution might cause, but that only opens up the conversation about ways to mitigate and work around. 11:32 < nmz787> he mentioned this paper https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1506446 11:32 < nmz787> .title 11:32 < yoleaux> nmz787: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. 11:33 < nmz787> "One cautionary tale among many is a genetic modification of the tp53 gene that protected mice against cancer while unexpectedly causing premature aging." 11:34 < nmz787> examples like that 11:35 < nmz787> but like, where are the people proposing to get rid of the brain in test subjects, surely if an organism lacks a brain, it should lack sentience/meaningful-pain, etc 11:36 < nmz787> or are humans just doomed, and we need to start working on intelligence breeding of chickens, life extension of chickens?? we already raise them in the millions and slaughter all the time happily. 11:38 -!- kursk [~kursk@101.37-191-143.fiber.lynet.no] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:39 < nmz787> that paper also says "Would the “best” genomes go to the most privileged? If we cross this threshold, it’s hard to see how we could ever return." 11:40 < nmz787> but that seems to ignore that A) this is biology and it's everywhere and cheap once established and B) piracy already happens in the biosphere, there'd no doubt be similar things going on with these ideas 11:40 < nmz787> again, Johnny Mnemonic style 11:40 < nmz787> (ok maybe better than that) 11:44 < nmz787> https://www.epw.in/engage/article/monsantos-loss-patent-bt-cotton-victory-farmers-indian-seed-companies 12:11 -!- NikopolSohru [~Nikopol_@93.190.137.186] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:11 < yashgaroth> I could see extremely labor-intensive genome modifications still commanding a higher price, exponentially more so if genome synthesis becomes a thing; testicular injection is cheap but you're limited to how much you can really change 12:12 < yashgaroth> of course, banning or overly restricting the technology causes the same stratification, as money...finds a way 12:14 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:19 * nmz787 chuckle 12:19 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:09 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:50 < jrayhawk> lol would the best genomes go to the privileged 13:50 < jrayhawk> zero awareness of the status quo 15:01 -!- NikopolSohru [~Nikopol_@93.190.137.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16 -!- jtimon [~quassel@92.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:20 < jrayhawk> https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/02/01/689623550/new-u-s-experiments-aim-to-create-gene-edited-human-embryos 15:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:37 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:37 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:38 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:37 -!- uniera_ [uniera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/uniera] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:37 -!- uniera [uniera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/uniera] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:16 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:37 -!- uniera_ [uniera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/uniera] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37 -!- uniera [uniera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/uniera] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:47 -!- uniera [uniera@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/uniera] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:46 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-86-49-16-65.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14 -!- jtimon [~quassel@92.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:16 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32 < nmz787> jrayhawk: meaning dumb celebrities will just pay for bigger bootied kids? 19:36 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:51 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:12 < kanzure> i've been fairly successful at isolating myself from people who claim that politics has unlimited power 20:12 < kanzure> and i think that decision has remained correct 20:12 < kanzure> https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/pocket-sized-dna-reader-used-to-scan-entire-human-genome-sequence/ 20:13 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/bldgblog/status/895728956724322304 20:13 < yoleaux> Holy crap. Malware hidden in a strand of DNA hijacks the computer that analyzes that particular gene sequence. https://www.wired.com/story/malware-dna-hack https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG5EqFZUwAAIGBP.jpg (@bldgblog) 20:13 < kanzure> i think that might be an old story, in which case it wasn't that interesting (it was a contrived scenario where they implemented a known vulnerability or something) 20:17 < kanzure> https://www.statnews.com/2019/01/30/nectome-brain-preservation-redemption/ 20:25 -!- Gurkenglas [~Gurkengla@unaffiliated/gurkenglas] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:25 < nmz787> yeah I feel like I heard that "DNA sequencing program is hacked by DNA" a while ago 22:08 < nmz787> .title https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/01/artificial-intelligence-turns-brain-activity-speech 22:08 < yoleaux> Artificial intelligence turns brain activity into speech | Science | AAAS 22:14 -!- hard [~hard@154.121.8.23] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:36 < nmz787> "The vanilloid receptor 1 (VR1), a cation channel on sensory nerve endings which responds to noxious thermal stimuli, is activated by capsaicin in mice [29]. Cloning and functional characterization of the chicken VR1 ortholog showed that, in birds, it fails to be activated by capsaicin owing to differences in the amino acid sequence at key positions that affect ligand binding" 22:37 < nmz787> .title https://www.cell.com/trends/plant-science/fulltext/S1360-1385(18)30261-9 22:37 < yoleaux> nmz787: Sorry, that doesn't appear to be an HTML page. 22:44 < nmz787> "Capsaicinoids: Pungency beyond Capsicum" 22:45 < nmz787> "Activating Pungency Biosynthesis in Tomato Fruits: Towards ‘Hot’ Tomatoes" 22:46 < nmz787> hmm, tomatoes appear to have all the capsaicin genes, but at least one is not transcriptionally active 23:19 < nmz787> .wik Eidophor 23:19 < yoleaux> "An Eidophor was a television projector used to create theater-sized images from an analog video signal. The name Eidophor is derived from the Greek word-roots ‘eido’ and ‘phor’ meaning 'image' and 'bearer' (carrier). Its basic technology was the use of electrostatic charges to deform an oil surface." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidophor 23:19 < nmz787> "Eidophors used an optical system somewhat similar to a conventional movie projector, but substituted a slowly rotating mirrored disk or dish for the film. The disk was covered with a thin film of transparent high-viscosity oil, and through the use of a scanned electron beam, electrostatic charges could be deposited onto the oil, causing its surface to deform." 23:21 < nmz787> "The Eidophor was 80 times brighter than CRT projectors of the time. The last Eidophors were able to project colour images of up to 18 metres in width. Advances in projection television technology in the 1990s brought about the end of the Eidophor. " 23:29 -!- yashgaroth [~yashgarot@cpe-66-27-127-185.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34 -!- hard [~hard@154.121.8.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:45 -!- hard [~hard@105.235.131.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:51 -!- hard [~hard@105.235.131.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52 -!- hard [~hard@105.235.131.248] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Sun Feb 03 00:00:39 2019