--- Log opened Thu Aug 08 00:00:33 2019
00:19 < nmz787> well I was thoroughly happy with my tour of the M&M (microscopy and microanalysis) 2019 vendor area... now to come up with $65k for a backpack-SEM (it has x-ray chemical analysis too)
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01:01 < archels> .title https://ai.googleblog.com/2019/08/an-interactive-automated-3d.html
01:01 < EmmyNoether> Google AI Blog: An Interactive, Automated 3D Reconstruction of a Fly Brain
01:44 < archels> is that NeuroGlancer thing working for anyone?
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07:36 < docl> .tw https://twitter.com/ciphergoth/status/1159460995640598530
07:36 < EmmyNoether> @RokoMijicUK 2/ I agree that an IRB-like bureaucracy for AI would be a terrible outcome that could happen if people are dumb about AI fears, but it doesn't ring true psychologically as the cause of AI risk pushback. Libertarians think of these things, but they aren't libertarians. (@ciphergoth, in reply to tw:1159459931965104128)
08:00 < andytoshi> https://space.nss.org/media/Lunar-Based-Self-Replicating-Solar-Factory.pdf
08:00 < andytoshi> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2016/04/22/moon-lunar-solar-power-plants/
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09:04 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=63926b60 Max: testing >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/myostatin/yashgaroth-proposal/
09:04 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=fd7d25f9 Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #49 from yashgaroth/master >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/
09:04 < yashgaroth> whee
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09:41 < docl> ok, I might have spotted an issue with using pingtime for high stakes trustless systems. it incentivizes trying to disrupt the communications of other nodes.
09:42 < docl> so my idea was to put a satellite in L5 that has to verify each block, making it so that miners have to locate their rigs close to it
09:42 < docl> with 1 second or so block times
09:44 < docl> trouble is, if comms go down for any given node, the other nodes get to submit their block sooner. if you can knock down 90% of other mining rigs, your own chances are now 90% higher
09:44 < docl> this would be true for bitcoin as well, if there were a reasonable way to take down a large number of other mining rigs besides your own, but the disruption would need to last an appreciable amount of time
09:51 < nsh> the conjunction of lifting costs and mean-time-to-paperweight of mining hardware suggests (to me at least) nobody is going to be mining in orbit
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11:51 < fenn> docl: the algorithm could incentivize including blocks from other miners
11:56 < nmz787> "requires no reagents other than electricity" I think that should say electrons, not electricity... electrons are a physical entity, electricity is the phenomenon of their movement
11:58 < nmz787> "a carriage enclosing two 1mL needles" needles are usually sold by "gauge"... syringes are sold by volume
12:01 < fenn> not having read whatever you're referring to, electricity sounds more correct
12:01 < fenn> it's unlikely that electrons are actually used up in any non-nuclear reaction
12:01 < fenn> the only case i can think of would be inverse beta decay
12:02 < kanzure> meeting itme http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-core-dev/2019-08-08.log
12:08 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ad842f3e Bryan Bishop: transcript: on-chain defense-in-depth >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/2019-02-09-mcelrath-on-chain-defense-in-depth/
12:10 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=eb38e75c Bryan Bishop: add tweeter link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/2019-02-09-mcelrath-on-chain-defense-in-depth/
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12:47 < nmz787> fenn: the commit by yashgaroth
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12:48 < yashgaroth> I will update that doc someday maybe
12:48 < nmz787> fenn: bonding carbon to hydrogen doesn't "use up" either reagent either
12:49 < nmz787> I mean, they're bonded, but they aren't gone... certainly nothing to do with nuclear chemistry either
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13:57 < fenn> it's not even a redox reaction
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15:27 < transhumanist_> I had an idea on bci that I wanted to ask around about
15:27 < transhumanist_> is this the right channel?
15:27 < transhumanist_> I came up with an alternative to sticking needles in the brain, I know with neuralink this is probably the big turn off for most people
15:27 < transhumanist_> t would involve cracking open the skull but no penetration of the actual brain matter
15:27 < transhumanist_> just contact with the surface
15:28 < transhumanist_> without penetrating the brain protective layer
15:28 < transhumanist_> probably much higher resolution too
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15:33 < superkuh> K. What?
15:34 < transhumanist_> instead of reading electrical signals read thermal flow
15:35 < transhumanist_> such a device has been invented
15:36 < poppingtonic> OpenWater?
15:37 < transhumanist_> https://phys.org/news/2019-07-physicists-particles-quantum-microphone.html
15:37 < poppingtonic> Though OpenWater isn't thermal, just uses red light.
15:39 < transhumanist_> I see OpenWater, never seen it before though, good to know
15:43 < transhumanist_> you could put the film outside the protective layer and get much higher resolution than you could with individual needles without penetrating the surface
15:44 < fenn> there are a lot of things that sorta kinda work, in that you can extract information about brain states. brain computer interface is really a quantitative problem. an 8-bit microcontroller in your toaster and a supercomputer are both fundamentally the same thing, but sometimes quantity is a quality all its own
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15:47 < transhumanist_> using a technique for de-blurring I think it would be very precise and since it wouldn't penetrate the surface it wouldn't scare people off
15:47 < transhumanist_> not to mention you could get 100k readings
15:48 < poppingtonic> In what timescale?
15:48 < fenn> so your idea is to measure phonons transmitted through liquid water and lipid bilayers and trace them back to the source?
15:49 < fenn> (i'll note the idea that phonons can even travel through water is new)
15:51 < poppingtonic> That's what the "quantum microphone" does?
15:51 < poppingtonic> News sites love jargon
15:51 < fenn> dunno, when i read "quantum" my eyes glaze over
15:52 < fenn> the stanford press release uses the same phrase
15:52 < poppingtonic> University press releases invent the jargon
15:54 < transhumanist_> well, anyway, thought I would mention it, I would do something with it but it would cost a lot of money to develop, there is a paper on it by the way, floating around
15:55 < transhumanist_> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bb3a/377d0d31ad21956f19f987af71a7df615656.pdf
15:58 < poppingtonic> This sounds great. After the Neuralink broadcast I get how the signal attenuation problem basically makes surface sensors "impoverished", to use Max Hodak's term, so how is this not affected?
15:59 < transhumanist_> because it would be inside the skull not on the surface of the skull
15:59 < transhumanist_> I could be wrong but I think it would work
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16:12 < transhumanist_> not to mention also sound propagates much slower so it can be caught with lower electronics than can light signals
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17:05 < Dr-G> good morning
17:10 < transhumanist_> good morning Dr-G
17:10 < transhumanist_> are you an expert in BCI
17:10 < Dr-G> whats bci
17:11 < transhumanist_> now your pulling my leg! lol
17:11 < Dr-G> dont know the ab.
17:11 < transhumanist_> never mind then, anyways hello
17:12 < Urchin[emacs]> brain-computer interface?
17:12 < transhumanist_> yes
17:12 < Dr-G> I'm working on a secret project to uplift ants
17:12 < kanzure> does it involve magnifying glasses?
17:13 < Dr-G> no
17:13 < kanzure> ever see the 1990s nematode laser-based brain sectioning upload experiment?
17:13 < Dr-G> It involves multiple ant colonies, natural radiation from minerals, starving and providing them with little steel swords
17:15 < kanzure> uplifting usually refers to brain uploading or some kind of cybernetics
17:16 < Dr-G> it refers to enhancing animals
17:16 < transhumanist_> Urchin I ask because earlier I posted about what I think might be a better way of doing bci, and less invasive than neuralink
17:16 < Dr-G> neuralink is a meme company
17:17 < kanzure> Dr-G: well anyway, how is your colony doing
17:17 < fenn> or you could just resurrect this guy https://www.newscientist.com/article/2146821-meet-the-vampire-ant-from-hell-with-huge-jaws-and-a-metal-horn/
17:18 < Dr-G> first I need to buy a house and build my lab
17:18 < kanzure> yak shaving
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17:36 < Urchin[emacs]> Dr-G: little steel swords, not little lasers? lame
18:36 < transhumanist_> figured out the device requires supercooling, even though the article doesn't seem to indicate that (or I missed it) no good for the application
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 09 00:00:34 2019