--- Log opened Thu Oct 17 00:00:36 2019
00:15 < mrdata> maaku, comfortable pecans, apparently
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00:28 < mrdata> DoYouKnow, i think your doctor would prescribe 1000 units of vitamin D daily and i think it's as good an idea as any to include in a treatment regime
00:30 < mrdata> it isnt necessarily to blame a conspiracy; variation from normative social behaviour is like wearing a giant flashing spot light on yourslf. you may as well wear international safety orange so thast you really stand out in a crowd
00:30 < mrdata> or you can practice becoming the grey man
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00:35 < mrdata> DoYouKnow, and if you live in a city, especially downtown, try getting more peace and quiet time; the hustle of a major city has its own buzz of nonsense
00:36 < mrdata> above is just advice that helped me so i'm glad to share
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03:25  * adlai is almost amused ... the human brain is not a weapon of mass destruction.
03:26 < adlai> DoYouKnow: if you care about 'mass destruction', 'human brain', etc, and enjoy telling internet people what to do, maybe you should study renewable energy, because there's a nice little slow-burning mass destructor just pissing away destructed mass and it's all going into the cosmic toilet instead of your waterwheel
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08:44 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=
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10:47 <@fenn> sorry, i had doyouknow on ignore from various other channels he is ban evading in
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10:49 -!- DoYouKnow was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by fenn [and stay out]
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10:50 < fenn> this guy is like half my ignore list
10:50 < kanzure> prodigious.
10:50 < fenn> the worst is that it sort of sounds like he's saying something
10:51 < kanzure> funny people say the same thing about me
10:53 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ
10:53 -!- kanzure changed the topic of ##hplusroadmap to: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | as investigated by the fbi weapons of mass destruction division | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | https://diyhpl.us/wiki | not quite sponsored by george church | banned by the MIT media lab
10:53 -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure
10:54 < fenn> banned by the media lab? i mean, they turned down my application but that's a bit strong
10:54 < kanzure> they were upset about the vampires
10:54 < kanzure> https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/commit/8ca201b5799f5e8e622ca99c32b9d73c1b192aa1
10:55 < fenn> is this link relevant?
10:55 < kanzure> ctrl+f vampires
10:57 < fenn> so... this transcript is lacking some relevant information, such as who is talking
11:00 < fenn> github changed formatting for diffs or something so that probably contributed to my confusion as the relevant highlighting was absent (for me at least)
11:03 < fenn> ok the formatting just sucks everywhere
11:12 < jrayhawk> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=8ca201b5799f5e8e622ca99c32b9d73c1b192aa1
11:12 < jrayhawk> doesn't suck on my infrastructure!
11:18 < fenn> everything on one line makes spotting the difference easier, but it should bold the actual character-level differences between old and new
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11:19 < fenn> spotting "If a jounral is a club," is pretty hard
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14:25 < nmz787> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-10258-1
14:25 < nmz787> .title
14:25 < EmmyNoether> Terminator-free template-independent enzymatic DNA synthesis for digital information storage | Nature Communications
14:25 < nmz787> "To produce strands representing user-defined content, nucleotide substrates are added iteratively, yielding short homopolymeric extensions whose lengths are controlled by apyrase-mediated substrate degradation. "
14:25 < nmz787> "we decided to leverage apyrase, which degrades nucleoside triphosphates into their TdT-inactive diphosphate and monophosphate precursors. Apyrase limits DNA polymerization by competing with TdT for nucleoside triphosphates. "
14:26 < nmz787> "We first optimized a mixture containing a tuned ratio of these two enzymes such that a nucleoside triphosphate is added at least once to each strand by TdT before being degraded by apyrase. We then characterized polymerization activity as a function of various buffer conditions, additives and divalent cations, enzyme to initiator ratio, and nucleoside triphosphate concentrations. We found that
14:26 < nmz787> although the addition of cobalt results in longer strands, they are more heterogeneous in length (Supplementary Fig. 3). Importantly, we also found that the terminal base at the 3?-end of the initiator has a significant effect on the nucleotide concentration required for extension, and that TdT prefers initiators that end in purines to those ending in pyrimidines"
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14:36 < c-c> I voted with my irc-client on #biology/evolv's policy of not allowing talk on Crispr, and superkus suggestion to join this channel
14:36 < c-c> hello,
14:37 < c-c> I don't biohack other than with nutrition, but if I do choose to, I want to be able to freely discuss such topics.
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14:45 < fenn> what's the rationale behind not allowing talk about CRISPR?
14:46 < c-c> the rationale is tyranny
14:46 < c-c> - dictating what others may converse
14:46 < fenn> what's the motivation
14:46 < fenn> are they sick of hearing the same arguments over and over?
14:48 < fenn> anyway CRISPR is on topic here
14:50 < c-c> the rationale is weak, when the dictated reason for censorship is "topics that may violate ethics" or some such nonsense
14:50 < c-c> as if his word was somehow more important than others
14:50 < c-c> pompous judgemental tyrant!
14:51 < fenn> "topics that may violate ethics"
14:51 < fenn> so.. talking about something violates ethics? huh?
14:51 < fenn> someone is confusing the map and the territory
14:53 < c-c> Not sure if its like academics ethics, or the ethics of "medical advice" or the combo
14:54 < fenn> it's because there's a gang of bio-ethics people that go around harassing everyone trying to make the world better
14:54 < c-c> - but given the reality: that an irc channel is not an academic institution, and its participants are not representatives of Scientific Institutions or Companies offering Medical Advice/Producs, banning open talk on Crispr is simply tyranny, imo.
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14:56 < c-c> its not like you could pull off successfull Crispr hack without a real good sequencer, a technician, a geneticist, either. Then you'd probably need to do some computation and followup, and suddenly you literally need an horde of experts.
14:57 < fenn> "it's too difficult" is not really an argument, because it's getting easier all the time, and we want it to be easier
14:57 < c-c> Is it getting "easier", or is it getting _cheaper_ for an organization that has all the prerequisites I mentioned?
14:57 < fenn> i don't think there's any difference
14:58 < c-c> The difference is, whether Zayner can pull it off in his garage or not (cannot).
14:58 < fenn> supposedly he can (did)
14:58 < c-c> - Or whether you need such an fine machinery, that scaffolding it takes corporate or governmental budget
14:59 < c-c> fenn: he doesn't know what the state was before, he doesn't know what the state is after, he doesn't know if something happened.
14:59 < c-c> fenn: great example of DIW
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14:59 < fenn> he says he did PCR on his skin cells and detected the gene he inserted
14:59 < kanzure> c-c: welcome, we fund risky genetic engineering projects in here
15:00 < c-c> ok kewl
15:00 < fenn> i'm willing to assume that zayner was not born with GFP genes
15:00 < kanzure> c-c: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
15:00 < c-c> kanzure: thank you
15:00 < kanzure> c-c: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612838/the-transhumanist-diy-designer-baby-funded-with-bitcoin/
15:01 < fenn> zayner seems more interested in making videos and drinking beer than in writing academic papers about his experimental protocol, and i don't blame him
15:01 < kanzure> he's showboaty and he should die for that, but it hasn't caught up to him yet
15:01 < c-c> kanzure: me, I want a color changing pigment from Cephalopoda and the neural grafts to control it
15:02 < c-c> hehe but thats just for me
15:02 < kanzure> at best i can offer you electrical implants to control chromataphores, take it or leave it
15:03 < fenn> i thought by now we would have a minimal free-as-in-freedom biotech toolset based on crude lysates of bacterial cultures, but that hasn't happened. so at any time a moral panic of the week could end up locking down all biotech reagents and making this sort of thing impossible
15:03 < kanzure> c-c: http://fennetic.net/irc/Insane_in_the_Chromatophores-G-OVrI9x8Zs.mp4
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15:06 < fenn> is juul still working on that? Taq cultures etc.
15:06 < kanzure> juul: status report or die
15:06 < fenn> calm down buddy
15:06 < kanzure> alright
15:07 < fenn> we're trying to save lives here
15:11 < c-c> kanzure: jeje I guess you got the idea!
15:12 < c-c> kanzure: where'd you get the video?
15:12 < kanzure> i see all videos simultaneously
15:13 < kanzure> we rescued the file from a takedown notice and backyard brains before they went defunct
15:13 < kanzure> https://blog.backyardbrains.com/2012/08/insane-in-the-chromatophores/
15:16 < c-c> ok, I guess you are good at selling stuff
15:17 < kanzure> because we rescued a file?
15:17 < kanzure> i don't even think it was me, it was probably fenn
15:18 < fenn> i just happened to have downloaded it because i find it easier than playing videos in a browser
15:19 < c-c> Some cephalopod pigment control -related vids https://www.mbl.edu/blog/elegant-interplay-of-coloration-strategies-is-uncovered-in-squid-smart-skin/
15:19 < c-c> - Also they shine light on how it works
15:20 < kanzure> that's the worst optogenetics joke i've ever heard
15:20 < kanzure> .wik optogenetics
15:20 < EmmyNoether> "Optogenetics (from Greek  optikos, meaning 'seen, visible') is a biological technique that involves the use of light to control cells in living tissue, typically neurons, that have been genetically modified to express light-sensitive ion channels." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optogenetics
15:25 < c-c> yeah if I was any funnier I would get paid as a comedian
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15:29 < c-c> I guess the Cephalopoda chromatophore pigment-cell gene-set would be the easy part. How would one train oneself to control the freshly implanted nerves. And btw, thats not optogenetics, technically, but just camouflage
15:30 < kanzure> no i told you all you get is electronics not nerve grafts
15:30 < kanzure> you're asking for too much >:(
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15:33 < c-c> kanzure: I didn't realize I had asked you to participate and forgotten all about it!
15:33 < c-c> My bad!
15:33 < c-c> kanzure: I take it back. You're free to start anew!
15:34 < c-c> https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/nerve-graft
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15:48 < c-c> Open the skin up, add a dystrophin gel, lay the nerve-grafts on it, tie (literally) the start to selected "goose-bump-nerves", the end to pigment cells. Nerve grafts have to be cultured from fibroblasts using three transcription factors, BRN2, MYT1L, and FEZF2. So one needs gene modification, a neurosurgeon and molecular bio lab. Any questions?
15:49 < c-c> - The surgically inserted nerve grafts need to undergo through a re-growth phase before they are viable.
15:49 < c-c> - Nobody knows how difficult it is to train to control such grafted nerves.
15:50 < c-c> - I could probably make more money writing for Netflix Scifi series.
15:53 < c-c> - actually who knows if the Cephalopoda chromatophore pigment cell activation potentials are compatible with human nerve cell potential voltages
15:55 < c-c> " chromatophores are specialized cells containing an elastic sack of colored pigment granules. Each chromatophore is attached to minute radial muscles, themselves controlled by small numbers of motor neurons in the brain. "
15:56 < fenn> galvanic skin response measurements (used in polygraph lie detector tests) show that humans have a relatively low latency output channel to nerves distributed through the skin, as long as you are willing to give up conscious control
15:59 < c-c> So, perhaps instead of symphatetic nerve control, the wanna-be-human-chameleon would need to tie the nerve grafts to some end of the motor cortex
15:59 < c-c> fenn: yes, but look at it further, and realize that those parts are literally controlled by "the lizard brain", iow. the conscious brain parts are not involved
16:05 < fenn> wtf
16:06 < fenn> they deleted the wikipedia article for steve mann
16:07 < c-c> Wanna know a cool body hack related to the sympathetic nervous system?
16:08 < fenn> so i guess you can have a category but not a page? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Steve_Mann
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16:19 < maaku> fenn: they pretty much deleted the wikipedia article on information theoretic death
16:19 < fenn> they deleted the article on sousveillance
16:19 < fenn> i'm confused why these aren't in the deletion log
16:19 < maaku> wikipedia is not a very reliable store of information
16:20 < maaku> kanzure: you should have told MIT media lab that you'd be happy to correct the 'errors' if they actually paid you to do transcripts.
16:20 < maaku> give them your consulting rate
16:21 < maaku> (I chuckled at vampilres, btw. What happened to a sense of humor?)
16:49 < kanzure> so i have a fan :-)
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17:51 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c947ee4d Bryan Bishop: make a blood oath to proof-of-stake >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/cryptoeconomic-systems/2019/all-about-decentralized-trust/
17:52 < adlai> technically, isn't anyone in favor of medical procedures that benefit more-or-less directly from donated serum, regardless of leukocytes etc, supporting vempiric medicine?
17:53 < fenn> it's spelt wampyric
17:53  * adlai almost yelled at the nice fellow from the local blood drive who eventually told me that being too honest disqualifies me from donating blood again!
17:54 < adlai> ("wait a few years and start gently lobbying the ministry of health" was his recommendation)
18:03 < kanzure> why are we still donating blood i thought we solved this problem
18:05 < adlai> please elaborate?
18:07 < adlai> the only technological solution about which i've read seemed to still be around the "we didn't run the experiment long enough to watch the lab animals die of unknown causes" stage, rather than the "check the box next to your blood type, payment method, and number of litres required"
18:08 < kanzure> "Combination therapy using fibrinogen ?-chain peptide-coated, ADP-encapsulated liposomes and hemoglobin vesicles for trauma-induced massive hemorrhage in thrombocytopenic rabbits" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm8UjBAS3cs
18:08 < kanzure> er,
18:08 < kanzure> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/trf.15427
18:10 < jrayhawk> something like a fifth of white european males are at-least-heterozygous for one of the known hemochromatosis genes; we need more vampyrism if anything
18:13  * adlai is trying to imagine this as a business plan, not that published research isn't one of the necessary steps on the way; so, the blood bank gets replaced by a "blood farm", next door to the trauma ward?
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18:15 < kanzure> blood bank would receive stock differently, i think that's about it
18:15 < fenn> jrayhawk: is bloodsport an acceptable substitute?
18:17  * adlai wonders what components of a processed blood donation could be missing from this combination
18:17 < jrayhawk> fenn: i am not about to say no to bloodsport
18:22 < fenn> we could reinstate pankration as an olympic event
18:25 < juul> kanzure: i'm not working on it. i quit biobricks foundation a while back. i'll probably pick it up again at some point given that it's all open source. keoni has been working on it recently
18:26 < kanzure> are you in need of employment
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 18 00:00:37 2019