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07:15 < kanzure> hmph
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09:26 < kanzure> https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/library-babel-fish/writing-unpaywall
09:35 < kanzure> .title https://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=4372
09:35 < EmmyNoether> Sorry, title took too long
09:37 < kanzure> "Boson sampling with 20 input photons in 60-mode interferometers at 10^14 state spaces" https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.09930
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11:23 < U_U> So.
11:23 < U_U> Extending intelligence.
11:23 < U_U> Memory, recollection, logical thinking.
11:24 < U_U> - using *games*?
11:24 < U_U> I remember reading often the propositon that playing Tetris makes ones brain work better or faster.
11:25 < U_U> I also remember playing the memory game using picto-cards as a kid
11:25 < U_U> - Know any games that do this type of training in structured way?
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11:29 < fenn> to my knowledge, no type of training improves general fluid intelligence
11:30 < fenn> there was some hype about the dual-n-back task, but it was only one author writing all the papers
11:30 < fenn> also doing dual-n-back sucks and feels bad
11:31 < fenn> there are general purpose memory techniques that can be turned into games i guess
11:31 < fenn> some people get off on reciting long strings of random numbers
11:35 < U_U> fenn: sorry I don't quite get your message
11:35 < U_U> fenn: you are saying that athletes and academics do not exist, iow intellect cannot be augmented through training
11:36 < U_U> fenn: or perhaps you were actually referring to "memory" instead of "intelligence"
11:36 < U_U> - if what you said were true, all guitarists and footballers and chess players would be on the same level
11:43 < fenn> there's a difference between being proficient at a task, and being highly adaptable and able to acquire new skills or recognize new patterns
11:44 < U_U> fenn: you certainly failed 8)
11:44 < fenn> most human cognitive functions considered "intellect" are based around memory
11:44 < U_U> I clearly wrote:
11:44 < U_U> " Memory, recollection, logical thinking. "
11:45 < fenn> "logical thinking" is mostly memorization of rules
11:45 < U_U> fenn: so, you are talking about some other idea of your own
11:46 < U_U> fenn: tell that to the octopus that opens a screw-top cork bottle without using the screw top or the crow that gets the food using water floatation
11:46 < U_U> Of course it is subject to defintion talk, if "memory, recollection" are part of "intelligence"
11:47 < U_U> And I'm pretty dyslexic to begin with
11:48 < fenn> of course memory is part of intelligence
11:49 < fenn> i'm not sure i really want to recite a whole textbook to you
11:49 < fenn> training systems that work are based on making the best use of the resources you've got
11:50 < fenn> for example if you have 7 chunks of working memory capacity, you can be trained to use more complex chunks than you would upon first approaching a problem domain
11:50 < U_U> fenn: again you seem to loose the context
11:50 < U_U> The question is really simple.
11:50 < fenn> i'm pretty sure we have an ontology mismatch, but that's okay because i know i'm right
11:51 < U_U> Games to improve memory, logic and other components of thinking?
11:51 < fenn> i could point you to a website that will lie to you and tell you how wonderful their educational games are and how they will make you a better person and all it takes is ten minutes a day of virtue signalling and so on and so forth
11:52 < fenn> but i won't, because i have morals
11:52 < U_U> I'd rather you'd ignore me, because you don't know any games for this, but instead have some type of self-esteem problem that makes you want to high-horse egomania around answering questions you have no answer to. 8)
11:53 < U_U> ^ fenn
11:53 < fenn> i'd rather you read what i wrote and think about it
11:53 < fenn> anyway i will stop now
11:54 < U_U> I could give you a lecture on neurological basis of memory as its currenctly known, and all that isn't in any "textbook", so I'm grateful you stopped.
11:57 < kanzure> a twin study showed that quality of education doesn't have an impact on learnedness; it seems unlikely that education has as much impact as people claim it does.
11:58 < U_U> so many modalities of "learnedness" and "education" thats just babble
11:58 < fenn> i use the software "anki" for memorization, and i should probably use it more
11:58 < U_U> - I know that one can improve the memory recall using games. Even just simple card games.
11:59 < U_U> - that would imply that "education" would improve "memory", assuiming it involves something like a game of memorization/recall
12:02 < U_U> - I didn't find any quatifying games for memory improvement, but I did find one to improve music interval logic https://store.steampowered.com/app/870400/Fugue/
12:03 < U_U> games are attractive because they can be easily copied/consumed and human neuroplasticity means training is more attractive approach than chemical signals/pharmacology
12:03 < U_U> - don't you think?
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12:29 < U_U> Hmmmm, and isn't the idea of games as an eductational tool or self-improvement vehicle proposing to be in the very intersection of "being proficient at a task" and "able to acquire new skills"
12:34 < U_U> I've learned quite a bit motoric guitar skills from Rocksmith 2014
12:34 < U_U> perhaps one could learn to be fluid in chemistry with something like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceChem
12:40 < kanzure> are you otherwise banned in this channel
12:48 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/AaronPomerantz/status/1186393760021635072
12:48 < EmmyNoether> @pknoepfler @antonioregalado @UrnovFyodor Could barely make it through the 1st ep. My biggest issue (apart from the misinformation & being a big ad for the 'biohacker' dude's crispr kits) is that it was so boring. 'Human Nature' is such a better documentary, hoping it comes widely available soon https://wondercollaborative.org/human-nature-documentary-film/ (@AaronPomerantz, in reply to tw:1185774672257806336)
13:16 < U_U> kanzure: so, what I'm proposing is "digital nootropics"
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13:18 < U_U> (pardon my memenglish)
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14:16 < kanzure> okay banhammer time
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14:29 < kanzure> "check if a scientific paper has been supported or contradicted" https://scite.ai/
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14:31 < kanzure> .w https://twitter.com/neurowitz/status/1186077929916289024
14:31 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/neurowitz/status/1186077929916289024
14:31 < EmmyNoether> Couldn't get any definitions for https://twitter.com/neurowitz/status/1186077929916289024
14:31 < EmmyNoether> Whole mouse brain is ~500x larger than the largest synapse-scale connectome we've generated. It seems tractable enough (seriously!) that I worry setting this as a next goal would not drive the right level of innovation to make a human connectome tractable anytime soon. (@neurowitz)
14:32 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/neurowitz/status/1186078722992070656
14:32 < EmmyNoether> It sounds crazy, but maybe we should just jump to mapping a whole marmoset connectome , and once that works, the mouse is trivial, and human is within reach. (@neurowitz, in reply to tw:1186077929916289024)
14:32 < kanzure> http://lukemuehlhauser.com/industrial-revolution/
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14:34 < kanzure> "High-throughput mapping of long-range neuronal projection using in situ sequencing (barseq)" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867419310748?dgcid=author
14:36 < kanzure> scientific workflow management things https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004219303554
14:39 < uvu> kewl!
14:40 < kanzure> i need you to die and leave
14:40 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@adamsantoro/thoughts-on-a-critique-of-pure-learning-zador-2019-820a7dbbc783
14:41 < uvu> kanzure: my death is certain
14:42 < kanzure> "Spontaneous thought as an unconstrained memory process" https://www.cell.com/trends/neurosciences/fulltext/S0166-2236(19)30162-6?rss=yes
14:43 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/davidad/status/1184285327147573248
14:43 < EmmyNoether> @_julesh_ @dailectic The downfall of Bell Labs climaxed with the 1982 US decree breaking up AT&T, sure. But maybe the real cause was skyrocketing risk-free rates: that multi-decade planning horizon simply could not be justified under such conditions. The transistor was invented near the all-time low. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EG9tNIlWwAIAK2T.jpg (@davidad, in reply to tw:1184280284117848064)
14:44 < kanzure> "Preexisting hippocampal network dynamics constrain optogenetically induced place fields" https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/803577v1
14:44 < kanzure> "Machine learning-guided channelrhodopsin engineering enables minimally invasive optogenetics" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41592-019-0583-8
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14:49 < uvu> kanzure: I have an autoimmune disease so I will certainly die.
14:49 < kanzure> okay
14:49 < uvu> Unless a gene based therapy fixes the possibly-identified problem
14:49 < kanzure> can you stop using this channel
14:49 < uvu> kanzure: can you instead of words, provide an example of what you want?
14:50 < kanzure> type /part
14:50 < uvu> - are all users expected to behave like they get butthurt from somene who doesn't agree?
14:50 < uvu> - or is this just your personal thing?
14:51 < kanzure> this is my personal thing and i am responsible for quality control
14:54 < uvu> kanzure: hehe well I hope the same to you!
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14:56 < fenn> i think it was the 27 nick changes in a row
14:56 < uvu> you don't like my new nick?
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14:58 <@jrayhawk> it was pretty much everything
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15:01 < kanzure> yeah...
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