--- Log opened Sat Nov 23 00:00:16 2019
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05:17 < maaku> .title https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Mystery-in-Sonoma-County-after-kidnap-arrests-of-14844155.php
05:17 < EmmyNoether> Mystery in Sonoma County after arrests of protesters in Guy Fawkes masks and robes - SFChronicle.com
05:18 < maaku> today's daily dose of lesswrong crazy
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05:42 < jrayhawk> Their blog is actually pretty interesting.
05:44 < jrayhawk> https://sinceriously.fyi/
05:57 < jrayhawk> that MIRI, specifically, is a hill worth dying on seems weirdly unquestioned throughout the narrative
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06:14 < jrayhawk> like i would've hoped the progression from "MIRI/CFAR is our only hope must I spend my life on behalf of it" to "MIRI/CFAR corrupts intellects and is self-defeating" would result in the latter position causing the former to be abandoned
06:14 < jrayhawk> but instead they *doubled down*
06:16 < jrayhawk> they're spending their life on behalf of MIRI/CFAR *even harder*
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09:16 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=8ccb345b Michael Folkson: Add transcript of James O'Beirne >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/stephan-livera-podcast/2019-04-11-james-obeirne/
09:16 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=ab103759 Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #61 from michaelfolkson/add-james-ob >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/
09:19 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=0aacd78a Bryan Bishop: add tweeter link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/stephan-livera-podcast/2019-04-11-james-obeirne/
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13:24 < maaku> jrayhawk: well they still seem to be stuck in this delusion about AI controlling the future
13:25 < maaku> but really the blog screams "I need psychiatric help" more than anything
13:25 < kanzure> not just the future but also the present because it goes back in time and judges you for not helping it come into existence
13:25 < kanzure> and therefore will torture you and all your friends for eternity in a perfect simulation
13:25 < maaku> I was at that workshop in 2016 referenced in the blog post. I wish I could say this wasn't par for the course.
13:25 < kanzure> or... we're not supposed to talk about it because .. uh..
13:25 < kanzure> oh you were there? i think fenn still lives there.
13:26 < maaku> kanzure: thankfully I don't care about my simulations ;)
13:26 < kanzure> fenn has been trying to escape ever since
13:26 < maaku> Free Fenn! (dons Guy Fawks mask)
13:27 < maaku> kanzure: yes I was there. It was a weird cultish indoctrination and initiation thing. Glad I got out.
13:27 < kanzure> that's singularity institue for you
13:28 < kanzure> institute
13:28 < fenn> thank you for your concern, but my problems are mostly my own
13:29 < kanzure> okay just let me know when to send the extraction team
13:30 < fenn> i am somewhat worried about the whole sinceriously.fyi kerfluffle, since apparently they have decided to intentionally go to "the dark side" and be come sith lords or something
13:31 < fenn> this is not the first time police have been involved, but i don't want to throw too much shade at rationalists as a group because they have been unfairly and disproportionately discredited enough already
13:32 < fenn> i feel the ideas should stand on their own, and it's sad that human psychology requires personality cults for ideas to get anywhere
13:32 < maaku> I think I lack enough star wars mythology to grok what is meant there, but they are (since 2016) using "dark arts" (their term) to manipulate people into AI-safety related causes, or to work shit jobs and donate all proceeds to such.
13:33 < maaku> I feel really bad for the people who get caught up in that.
13:34 < maaku> But I don't think this is a symptom of rationality groups, but rather a parasite attached to the weirder part of the bay area.
13:35 < kanzure> i would say the idea of donating all your income to ai safety was an idea long before then
13:35 < kanzure> like as early as 2007
13:36 < kanzure> maaku: i briefly lived with anna back in 2008
13:36 < kanzure> while i was doing some volunteer work for singularity institute. it was my first time in the bay area.
13:39 < maaku> oh I don't mean to imply this is anything new
13:39 < fenn> ah i mean the small splinter group associated with sinceriously.fyi has tried to become sith lords or something
13:40 < fenn> sorry "they" was ambiguous
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13:46 < maaku> fenn: to what purpose..?
13:47 < fenn> taking over the world? i'm not sure
13:48 < fenn> if you believe AI will inevitably take over the world, and there's a group working doing that first, and you want to take over the world, then the group doing it first would be your obvious target for subversion
13:49 < fenn> that's just my wild speculation though
13:50 < fenn> fwiw i consider eliezer's "dark arts" to be referring more to things like harry potter fan fiction, rather than actual applied sociopathy
13:51 < docl> dark arts thing has to do with a humor trope that is taken seriously (perhaps too seriously), where anything corporate or fake is interpreted as evil. see the gervais principle from ribbonfarm, scott adams pointy haired boss from dilbert, etc.
13:52 < maaku> fenn: well I'm sorry to say that CFAR and Anna specifically were engaged in the latter in 2016
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14:02 < maaku> docl: I don't get that impression at all. "dark arts" is about how you use knowledge. You can use knowledge of human decision making processes to help people resolve their problems and make good decisions. That would be a good use of the "art."
14:03 < maaku> Or you can, over the span of a 5 day workshop, use it to carefully structure the breakdown of someone's preconceived notions, and prepare them into a state of mind to be receptive to crazy ideas you want to take hold that will have a transformative effect on their life, for your benefit.
14:04 < kanzure> that was my hobby when i was in high school
14:09 < fenn> i had an aquarium and put improvised weapons on remote control cars
14:10 < fenn> (pre-battlebots)
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17:56 < kanzure> hmm "More than 40 other genes that could benefit astronauts have been tracked down by Harvard University geneticist Professor George Church."
17:56 < kanzure> is he holding out on us?
17:56 < kanzure> >:(
17:56 < kanzure> https://nypost.com/2019/11/21/nasa-exploring-possibility-of-genetically-modified-super-astronauts/
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18:27 < kanzure> hmph
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23:10 < maaku> kanzure: I don't know if this is on your list, but I recently learned that a robin (the bird) has a magnetic compass in its eyes. if the genes could be isolated, it's an obvious candidate for genetic enhancement.
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23:15 < fenn> there was some research on this in humans, don't remember what the results were
23:16 < fenn> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3128388/
23:16 < EmmyNoether> Human cryptochrome exhibits light-dependent magnetosensitivity
23:20 < fenn> .title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11976892
23:20 < EmmyNoether> The light sensitivity of the human visual system depends on the direction of view.  - PubMed - NCBI
23:22 < fenn> "CRY, a Drosophila clock and light-regulated cryptochrome, is a major contributor to circadian rhythm resetting and photosensitivity'
23:23 < fenn> so sleep facing north i guess
23:24 < fenn> i remember some witchcraft or something that said to do that
23:26 < fenn> "Navajo Indians also believed that you should never sleep facing North, as it was evil and only for dead people"
23:27 < fenn> "ancient Chinese sources including Confucius recommended head facing north with feet to the south while sleeping. An ancient Indian source Vastu recommends the opposite."
23:45 < maaku> fenn: my guess would have been that was due to spiritual beliefs regarding the Sun
23:46 < maaku> Although that's usually east-west, not north-south...
23:46 < fenn> or draft from a window, or random BS legends, or who knows
23:47 < fenn> it would be nice to see a controlled experiment though
--- Log closed Sun Nov 24 00:00:17 2019