--- Log opened Mon Dec 30 00:00:52 2019
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00:43 < fenn> is myopia actually heritable? i thought it was due to light exposure at night during a certain developmental window
00:43 < jrayhawk> Yeah.
00:44 < jrayhawk> http://www.iovs.org/content/51/12/6262.full.pdf also interesting
00:46 < jrayhawk> .title http://gettingstronger.org/rehabilitation/
00:46 < EmmyNoether> Rehabilitation / Getting Stronger
00:46 < fenn> iovs link not actually a pdf
00:47 < jrayhawk> oh
00:47 < jrayhawk> obnoxious
00:49 < jrayhawk> tl;dr you can use anti-corrective lenses at the limits of focus as a resistance training exercise for the ciliary muscles, which can atrophy from excessive indoor view-distances
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01:05 < fenn> and does this actually work?
01:06 < fenn> is there a limit to how many diopters can be corrected?
01:09 < fenn> i was mostly just responding to the 'gattaca is wrong' article, but i'd sure love to fix my eyes and not have to rely on glasses
01:22 < fenn> i wish people would stop using the term "gifted" when talking about genetic enhancement
01:26 < jrayhawk> um. i literally linked to a randomized controlled trial demonstrating that it works.
01:28 < jrayhawk> although the formatting on it is awful
01:40 < fenn> there's a difference between "we monitored axial length changes after 60 minutes of defocus" and "i threw away my glasses a decade ago after a year of this exercise regimen"
01:44 < nmz787> would this training work with glasses instead of contacts?
01:44 < fenn> nobody said anything about contacts
01:44 < nmz787> interesting
01:45 < nmz787> I'm not sure why I thought that
01:45 < fenn> probably the word "lenses"
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01:49 < nmz787> too much vacuum on my brain from spending all night working on this display and testing how much this chamber will pump down to https://imgur.com/a/Pxh2H3r
01:49  * fenn disconnects the brain-sucker
01:50 < fenn> is that a sewer pipe?
01:50 < nmz787> I think so
01:50 < fenn> i have something similar kicking around
01:50 < nmz787> 10 inch ID
01:51 < LeoTal> nmz787: Pretty impressive for homemade! What do you need the vacuum for?
01:51 < nmz787> LeoTal: gonna be coating some pieces of sheet metal with an anti-adhesion chemical
01:52 < nmz787> the sheet metal will have micron-scale characters all over it, with nanoscale detail (corners and curves and such)
01:52 < LeoTal> nmz787: Oh nice! Do you just evaporate the anti-stick thingummy and let it deposit on the metal, or do you have some directional sputtering thingummy going on?
01:52 < nmz787> and then it'll be used for imprint lithography on a roll to roll drum process
01:52 < fenn> are the black stopper things ionization gauges?
01:53 < nmz787> fenn: no they're just rubber stoppers with piano wire shoved through with a drill press as the shover, for electrical feedthroughs
01:53 < nmz787> LeoTal: no sputtering, just volatalizing with the vacuum and maybe some heat from something like nichrome wire
01:54 < nmz787> the sheet metal will be heated with a wire from an electric blanket (for sleeping)
01:54 < LeoTal> nmz787: You can get to nm level with that? At my old lab we always had problems with the vapour not getting into corners
01:55 < nmz787> LeoTal: haven't tried it out yet, just got the digital vacuum gauge hooked up tonight
01:55 < LeoTal> nmz787: Best of luck!
01:56 < nmz787> we had a 1" piece of the sheet metal made, and then tried stamping it out in UV-cured resin, but the stamper got clogged
01:56 < LeoTal> Oh no
01:56 < nmz787> so we're hoping the anti-stick layer will assist with not clogging
01:56 < nmz787> and also thinking we'll probably benefit from coating the entire drum with the stuff too, for production runs on plastic film
01:58 < nmz787> fenn: this is the gauge, LOL at their list price as they're all over ebay for like $35 shipped https://www.mksinst.com/f/901p-micro-pirani-vacuum-transducer
01:58 < nmz787> it's a combo membrane deflection, plus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirani_gauge
01:59 < nmz787> so can handle pretty wide range of vacuum, as well as a few ATM of pressure
02:04 < nmz787> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGp-CQq0qbM
02:04 < nmz787> .title
02:04 < EmmyNoether> Isopropanol 'fixing' (and showing) a vacuum leak - YouTube
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02:07 < fenn> so what is the anti adhesion chemical, if you can share
02:09  * fenn guesses rain-x
02:09 < fenn> "occasionally used in laboratory settings to silanise a surface"
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02:14 < nmz787> .wik fdts
02:14 < EmmyNoether> HTTPError: HTTP Error 404: Not Found (wik:99)
02:15 < fenn> d'eaux
02:15 < nmz787> anyway, it's FDTS
02:15 < nmz787> perfluro-decyl-trichloro-silane
02:15 < fenn> aha
02:16 < fenn> i can see how that would work
02:18 < nmz787> the hard part thus far has been figuring out how to properly activate the surface of the nickel plate
02:19 < nmz787> the Si-Cl is supposed to react with R-OH... so it seems like you just need to make some nickel oxide
02:19 < nmz787> but there are like 3 or 6 different nickel oxides
02:19 < nmz787> and the preparation methods aren't too obvious
02:20 < nmz787> so far it seems that residual atmospheric plasma works (i.e. pull vacuum on a chamber and inductively couple RF energy into the chamber, to get a plasma to form)
02:20 < nmz787> and hot H2O2 also looks promising
02:20 < fenn> nitric acid?
02:22 < fenn> oh it would dissolve
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07:37 < kanzure> jiankui he gets 3 years in prison and $450k fine, other collaborators imprisoned https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/30/business/china-scientist-genetic-baby-prison.html
07:38 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/antonioregalado/status/1211537263647219712
07:38 < EmmyNoether> Any opinions? Give me a well informed one and I will add to the story https://twitter.com/antonioregalado/status/1211533342744678400 (@antonioregalado)
07:38 < kanzure> unrelated:
07:38 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/yiqinsh/status/1207049154318479362
07:38 < EmmyNoether> FTC finally broke silence on $ILMN $PACB deal: the US antitrust agency challenges Illumina's proposed acquisition of PacBio. / Press release: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/12/ftc-challenges-illuminas-proposed-acquisition-pacbio?utm_source=govdelivery (@yiqinsh)
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08:48 < kanzure> https://sleepdiplomat.wordpress.com/2019/12/19/why-we-sleep-responses-to-questions-from-readers/
08:50 < kanzure> "Genome-wide association studies of brain imaging phenotypes in UK Biobank" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0571-7
08:52 < kanzure> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7827571/How-super-rich-Australians-moving-CLONE-cats-dogs-die.html (with apologies for linking to dailymail)
09:24 < kanzure> https://protonmail.com/blog/protoncalendar-security-model/
09:26 < kanzure> it is not clear to me why you would want to store the calendar key on the remote server
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12:42 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21913791
12:43 < EmmyNoether> Chinese scientist who edited twin babies' genes jailed for 3 years | Hacker News
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12:56 < kanzure> curious little 80-page book (an interview with aubrey de grey) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1785353969   i like the format (but the reviews seem to indicate it was very superficial)
13:13 < kanzure> "Evidence for verbal memory enhancement with electrical brain stimulation in the lateral temporal cortex" http://memory.psych.upenn.edu/files/pubs/KuceEtal17b.pdf (2018)
13:16 < kanzure> "Perirhinal input to neocortical layer 1 controls learning" https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2019/07/25/713883.full.pdf
13:30 -!- SDr|hu is now known as SDr
13:38 < kanzure> "Enhancement of declarative memory" http://www.protein.bio.msu.ru/biokhimiya/contents/v83/pdf/BCM1124.pdf (2018)
13:38 < kanzure> "The role of non-coding RNA in memory formation has been reported in a number of publications [46, 47]. RNA-mediated "memory transfer" was recently demonstrated in the marine mollusk Aplysia [48]. Total RNA was extracted from neurons of Aplysia subjected to sensitization training by tail electroshock and injected into neurons of naive mollusks. Snails injected with the RNA of the trained ...
13:38 < kanzure> ...snails showed higher levels of siphon withdrawal reflex as compared to the control group. These data confirm the epigenetic hypothesis of memory formation and can be used in future studies on the possibility of memory stimulation."
13:44 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=037c891c Bryan Bishop: genetics: more memory improvement stuff >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
13:56 < kanzure> "... It was calculated already in the 1960s by the Agricultural Economics Research Institute, Oxford, that the agricultural productivity, even at that time, would be more than sufficient to feed 45 billion people globally"
13:58 < kanzure> reference: Colin Clark, "Agricultural productivity in relation to population," in: Gordon Wolstenholme (Ed.), Man and His Future: A CIBA Foundation Volume, Gordon, Little, Brown and Co., Boston, 1963, pp. 23-35.
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17:14 < fenn> maybe if the snails only retracted after making right turns in a maze, but as it is stated above it just proves that RNA makes snail tails retract more readily
17:14 < fenn> it doesn't prove epigenetic memory
17:19 < kanzure> oh they didn't test other RNA sequences?
17:22 < fenn> dunno, i didn't read anything more than your paste
17:22 < fenn> 'I didn't think it was fair to commit to having a puppy and then let it spend the first year of its life in quarantine,'
17:22 < fenn> why would they quarantine a cloned dog?
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17:32 < fenn> https://www.dps.texas.gov/RSD/Precursor/Laws/index.htm wow that's pretty draconian
17:33 < kanzure> .title
17:33 < EmmyNoether> TxDPS - Laws and Regulations
17:33 < fenn> coffee filters banned in texas
17:33 < kanzure> a lot of chemistry lab equipment is banned in texas, like basic glassware
17:33 < fenn> supposedly the law was repealed in june 2019
17:34 < fenn> but still, jeez
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22:55 < Solgriffin> kanzure, if you have an acmerican chemical society approved diploma, can ya get glassware for private use
22:55 < Solgriffin> whether a science teacher or lab tech or someting
22:55 < Solgriffin> ACS usually is good university chemsitry diploma
22:56 < Solgriffin> I mean at least the police would see ya are doing legit work if its hazmat valid since they still probably get ya  on environmental hazard if your basement lab isn't up to bar with ventillation or something
22:57 < Solgriffin> I know I think US wide the 2 stopper flask is considered drug periphenalia on usual cop list because its advanced organic chem synthesis glassware and it if looks out of place, they'd be able to clean up your whole set I heard
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22:59 < Solgriffin> or probably if ya have one of thsoe two chamber or jacket glass tubes with the inner one that is like a coolant exchanger for the outer glass tube (Forget the name) that condenses vapor from distellation..... since that is purification glassware and that might get ya into trouble too.... double thing and the two stopper glass flask because they are for organic syntheis and I guess glass is higher quality for
22:59 < Solgriffin> purity of your compound so anything outside trying to argue some certification for some benign experiment makes i tlook like a pruficiation for drugs
22:59 < Solgriffin> I guess
23:00 < Solgriffin> I  forgot alot and need to retake a organic chem lab or synethsis study at some local uni but just saying some stakes ban that stuff but still allow basic test tubes and flask
23:00 < Solgriffin> I think some ppl can make flower essnses and purification tinctures that way but never did it....
23:00 < Solgriffin> er flower essenses
23:01 < Solgriffin> use a solvent and capture the vapor distilling the I guess fragrence compounds
23:01 < Solgriffin> I don't know anything about bach flower essense or perfumes or anything so could be wrong
23:01 < Solgriffin> heard some woman in the south though gbot busted as a drug lab getting into tha tthough
23:02 < Solgriffin> and she was trying to boil of stuff but had too much glassware
23:02 < Solgriffin> her flower essense business turned into a drug raid
23:02 < Solgriffin> I guess some states are totally draconian
23:03 < Solgriffin> outside hazmat licensed and osha stamp of approval chem hooded lab
23:03 < Solgriffin> with fire code alarms
23:03 < Solgriffin> and gas detectors
23:05 < Solgriffin> I was thinking of getting ACS chem diploma going back to what ya said about texas beign draconian regs on glassware
23:05 < Solgriffin> and thought that be enough to tinker abit
23:05 < Solgriffin> given I had something that looked like a good ventilation
23:06 < Solgriffin> some health department could just walk in and get ya on hazmat without safety cabinet and fire safety before ya get into glassware regulation whether ya had a science degree that was maybe from american chem society approved program or not
23:06 < Solgriffin> because ya need that at least to stock uni labs, do high schoolc hem which has hazmat
23:06 < Solgriffin> hazardous materials
23:06 < Solgriffin> or well ya need some physics or chem degree
23:06 < Solgriffin> anyway
23:07 < Solgriffin> ya could set up glassware and they'd get ya for haz chem with your acid if its not in proper storage caibnet
23:07 < Solgriffin> or they could get ya for a solvent that is not labeled
23:07 < Solgriffin> health department is probably more dangerous than drug police  nutters
23:08 < Solgriffin> health dept come ina nd find a label not on your jars of whatever and slap a label on your house
23:08 < Solgriffin> bam
23:08 < fenn> health dept won't shoot you
23:08 < Solgriffin> here comes fire department
23:08 < Solgriffin> fines
23:08 < Solgriffin> etc
23:08 < Solgriffin> and then they'd say clean the whole basement lab up
23:08 < Solgriffin> well... glassware that looks like a lab might not get ya shot but cops might do some drug raid... pepper spray but thats if its maybe texas and I dont' think they are all that bad
23:08 < fenn> just wait til they discover the petri dishes and UNSANCTIONED GENETIC EXPERIMENTATION
23:09 < Solgriffin> less ya are some redneck with a suspicious shitty house anyway
23:09 < Solgriffin> I'd typing to much... health dept is worse
23:09 < Solgriffin> cops might rough ya up but health department can slap a label on your house
23:09 < Solgriffin> bio hazard
23:09 < Solgriffin> hazardous materials
23:09 < Solgriffin> they call the fire department
23:09 < Solgriffin> and fire says not up to code
23:09 < Solgriffin> housing departmetn comes and says
23:09 < Solgriffin> unregulated use for this level of chemcail
23:10 < Solgriffin> I mean most high school chem experiments at some level ya migth be able to do but that is inorganic acid and base but if your acids are too strong, that is a hazard if not properly stores
23:10 < Solgriffin> if your alcohol is to pure
23:10 < Solgriffin> that is alcohol chem hazard or food regulation
23:10 < fenn> i can't help but read you with a scottish accent
23:10 < Solgriffin> if your solvent like acetone is pure , they can fine ya on that if its not in proper cabinet
23:11 < Solgriffin> no ventinlation all kidns o fshit...... your basement for chemsitry if it looks like something from 1960s might work but in 2000 after 9/11 they cgot all serious about what a lab is and home brew shit if it looks liek shit,.... trust.. me my sister is health cepartment... and its not just food.... they can call, fire depaartment, hazardous materials, and police even and fuck you over with so many fines that if
23:11 < Solgriffin> the housing department condems your house you are fucked
23:12 < Solgriffin> I"m in the US
23:12 < Solgriffin> I relaxed my typing so maybe its coming out hick like abit
23:12 < Solgriffin> translates into redneck slightly
23:13 < Solgriffin> unsnactioned genetic experiments is just bio hazard by health department
23:13 < Solgriffin> if ya have petri dishes in one of those bio ovens or well I guess its a heat box
23:14 < Solgriffin> I forget the term
23:14 < Solgriffin> and ya were using some retrovirus sample on them......
23:14 < Solgriffin> all that shit is these days suspiciously hazardous by health dept
23:14 < Solgriffin> if ya don't know HOW to talk and don't have some clean shit and space
23:14 < Solgriffin> even if they say ya arew making a dangerous microrganism
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23:15 < Solgriffin> kanzure knows more but I think ya can order retrovirus with genetic material
23:15 < Solgriffin> I forget how they splice it in other then retrovirus
23:16 < Solgriffin> less ya can take a RNA strand from test tube and feed it to bacteria since they can transfer between themselves but I haven't looked at lab technique... probably take ma an hour to figure it out though
23:16 < Solgriffin> my background really is photonics, optical physics, and silicon fabrication
23:16 < Solgriffin> microelectronic fab
23:16 < Solgriffin> from what I know
23:17 < Solgriffin> electronics is a safe hobby
23:17 < Solgriffin> no drugs
23:17 < Solgriffin> as long as ya don't ahve ham license
23:18 < Solgriffin> since it ya are broadcasting on wrong channels, the police can smash down your basement lab door or well they'll just knock with FCC and NSA guy coming in to hand ya a warrent to investigate if ya don't openly show your logbook on radio use because its a legal record and if ya get caught sending signals on military bands or radio washout of commercial... they can fine ya 10,000 dollars and take yoru equpment I
23:18 < Solgriffin> heard including maybe your oscilloscope and electronics lab
23:18 < fenn> a friend of mine was convicted of a felony for putting together a satellite TV decryption kit, now he can't vote or leave the country and has to check in with probation all the time
23:19 < Solgriffin> he was just soldering?
23:19 < Solgriffin> like little kit
23:19 < Solgriffin> well, was he doing other stuff?
23:19 < Solgriffin> warez on the computer
23:19 < Solgriffin> hacking
23:19 < Solgriffin> or any cell phone stuff
23:19 < fenn> it was an atmega8 card
23:19 < Solgriffin> they take the cell phone simm stuff seriusly
23:20 < fenn> just the one thing
23:20 < Solgriffin> yeah that is like ham shit
23:20 < fenn> no mafia boss stuff
23:20 < Solgriffin> some guy got 10,000 fine for someone overhaerd him talking to brazil and then he got a suspicious flag from FCC and mil or someone that he might be sending info
23:21 < Solgriffin> and that was just  basic HF
23:21 < Solgriffin> audio
23:21 < fenn> isn't that perfectly legal?
23:21 < fenn> "talking to brazil" really
23:21 < Solgriffin> and I guess he played to far into side bands and wasn't in approved US ones for amatuer radio
23:21 < Solgriffin> someone picke dit up and thought he was doign espionage... evne if he wasn't.... if your log books and all the records dont' look good in court....
23:22 < Solgriffin> I mean ...... thats not even building stuff which is more suspicious these days since alot of intro ham radio stuff has fixed frequencies so ya don't mess with other stuff.....
23:22 < Solgriffin> it was new jersey
23:22 < Solgriffin> this is past 10 years
23:22 < Solgriffin> after 9/11 this tristate area with new york , pennsylvania na d new jersey are trigger happy with the terrorist
23:23 < Solgriffin> theats and all that shit
23:23 < Solgriffin> homeland security within 100 miles of the border in new laws I think has police ability
23:23 < Solgriffin> to go into houses
23:23 < fenn> the terrorist theater
23:23 < Solgriffin> and new york has overregulation now with police
23:23 < Solgriffin> I guess
23:24 < Solgriffin> ya probably light off a fire cracker in new york and they'll piut ya in insane asylum with terrorist noise threat
23:24 < Solgriffin> even if accidental
23:24 < Solgriffin> explosive trheat
23:24 < Solgriffin> weapon
23:24 < Solgriffin> etc
23:24 < Solgriffin> lol
23:24 < Solgriffin> eve if its was legal years ago
23:24 < Solgriffin> well..... everywhere in this area is big on firearms and explosive regulation
23:25 < Solgriffin> even if its a little firecracker
23:25 < Solgriffin> from 50 yrs ago
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23:26 < Solgriffin> anywayyyy along while back
23:26 < Solgriffin> in here
23:26 < Solgriffin> kanzure said TExas I think
23:27 < Solgriffin> I can see why they are zero tolerance on glassware and lab stuff because they probably are assuming some drug trafficer will bring raw stuff over the border from mexico and refine it in texas
23:27 < Solgriffin> like cocaine to crack
23:27 < Solgriffin> or sometihng I guess
23:28 < fenn> they just bring meth over from industrial scale factories in mexico
23:28 < fenn> the law often has nothing to do with actual threats
23:29 < fenn> it's just old guys who feel like they have to do something, anything
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