--- Log opened Thu Jan 02 00:00:54 2020 00:16 -!- RoCxWizard [~RoCxWiz@cpe-66-68-113-113.austin.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:17 < RoCxWizard> hello guys 00:28 < nmz787> yoyoyoyo 00:28 < RoCxWizard> yo yo 00:37 -!- RoCxWizard [~RoCxWiz@cpe-66-68-113-113.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:47 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e35:8ab1:dea0:f8d4:2237:4484:167c] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:55 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:00 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e35:8ab1:dea0:f8d4:2237:4484:167c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:37 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:52 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evctgjecktiqzqvq] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:44 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181220.unknown.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:04 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:25 -!- adamsky [~adamsky3@178235181220.unknown.vectranet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:50 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:53 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:08 < kanzure> "The use and misuse of Brave New World in the CRISPR debate" https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/crispr.2019.0046 06:09 < kanzure> "When writing about CRISPR and similar technologies, many bioethicists use science-fiction references to help readers picture the ramifications of germline gene editing. By a large margin, the most frequently referenced novel in this debate is Aldous Huxley's 1932 dystopia Brave New World. Despite its iconic status and effectiveness at communicating specific ethical issues, Brave New World ... 06:09 < kanzure> ...provides relatively poor examples of interventions such as gene therapy or enhancement. In addition, the eugenic tropes that Huxley promotes in much of his work make Brave New World an uncomfortable choice for authors who oppose the use of CRISPR for illiberal purposes. Ethicists should consider bringing a wider variety of fiction references into the discourse on genome editing, especially ... 06:09 < kanzure> ...stories that can complement Brave New World with insights about the ethical issues left undeveloped in Huxley's novel." 06:09 < kanzure> but it's actually much worse than that: 06:09 < kanzure> "Huxley was particularly enthusiastic about Nobel laureate H.J. Muller's well-known plan to improve the human gene pool by banking high-quality sperm.75 He envisioned a society organized along those lines in his 1962 utopian novel Island, in which the sperm of men with high IQs are provided from a central bank to grateful married couples, and children play board games such as "Evolutionary ... 06:09 < kanzure> ...Snakes and Ladders" or "Mendelian Happy Families." In many ways, Island serves as an inverted version of Brave New World, demonstrating how a non-totalitarian society might use eugenics to great benefit. Island even suggests that people who were overly susceptible to persuasion could be trained to avoid hypnotism by would-be dictators.76" 06:10 < kanzure> ... making brave new world primarily a book about a totalitarian regime, and not the warning about genetic technology sliding down slippery slopes that everyone makes it out to be. 06:10 < kanzure> "Huxley's lifelong interest in modifying humans at a biological level makes him a poor (and inaccurate) icon for common-sense controls on GGE. Although many ethicists may be unfamiliar with his other writings, these strongly suggest that Brave New World was never meant to be a warning about technologies such as CRISPR. Authors looking to use science fiction in their work might want to cite ... 06:10 < kanzure> ...authors who provide a better foundation for their ethical arguments." 06:10 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evctgjecktiqzqvq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 06:14 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:34 < kanzure> "In some of these cases, it is possible that authors are misremembering the society described in Brave New World, or that they have not read the book in the first place. Others may be using the phrase "brave new world" less in reference to Huxley's novel and more to evoke the general idea of a futuristic dystopia. In many cases, this seems to involve reading contemporary bioethical ... 06:34 < kanzure> ...concerns into Brave New World even when they are not supported by the text itself." 06:36 < kanzure> "One of the strangest aspects of Brave New World's use in bioethics is that many authors use the novel as shorthand for ethical issues that never appear in the novel at all, and even some issues that contradict those portrayed in the novel." 06:36 < kanzure> "This trend shows no sign of abating. Allusions to Huxley's novel have appeared in more than 500 academic articles about CRISPR.56" 06:39 < kanzure> great article. 07:13 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulwalsyowfxvspkt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:12 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2606:6000:ca84:b300:d05f:d6cb:bf5a:228c] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:30 < kanzure> maaku: i found you https://www.lesswrong.com/users/mark_friedenbach 09:15 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:45 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:12 -!- Alchemical_ [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.7.4 - https://znc.in] 10:13 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@unaffiliated/kanzure/bot/gnusha] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:00 -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | as investigated by the fbi weapons of mass destruction division | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | https://diyhpl.us/wiki | not quite sponsored by george church | banned by the MIT media lab 11:00 -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] [Thu Oct 17 10:53:37 2019] 11:00 [Users ##hplusroadmap] 11:00 [ abetusk ] [ dongcarl ] [ indiebio ] [ mgxm ] [ saurik ] 11:00 [ acertain ] [ dustinm ] [ Jenda` ] [ midnight ] [ SDr ] 11:00 [ adlai ] [ ebowden_ ] [ jrayhawk ] [ mrdata ] [ ShellcatZero] 11:00 [ aeiousomething ] [ EmmyNoether] [ juri_ ] [ namespace ] [ sivoais ] 11:00 [ AgenttiX ] [ EnabrinTain] [ justanotheruser] [ nanotube ] [ sknebel ] 11:00 [ Alchemical ] [ ensign ] [ juul ] [ nickjohnson] [ Solgriffin ] 11:00 [ andytoshi ] [ faceface ] [ kanzure ] [ nmz787 ] [ srk ] 11:00 [ archels ] [ fenn ] [ kuldeep ] [ nsh ] [ streety ] 11:00 [ arisum ] [ filipepe ] [ LarchOye ] [ otoburb ] [ superkuh ] 11:00 [ balrog ] [ gnusha ] [ LeoTal ] [ pasky ] [ TMA ] 11:00 [ bbrittain ] [ Guest61734 ] [ Livestradamus ] [ phaze ] [ traumschule ] 11:00 [ berndj ] [ gwillen ] [ lsneff ] [ potatope ] [ Urchin ] 11:00 [ cannedprimates_] [ heath ] [ maaku ] [ ptrcmd ] [ yashgaroth ] 11:00 [ Codaraxis ] [ HEx1 ] [ Madars ] [ rodarmor ] [ yorick ] 11:00 [ darsie ] [ Hooloovo0 ] [ Malvolio ] [ s0ph1a ] 11:00 [ docl ] [ Human_G33k ] [ MarkOtaris ] [ sandeepkr ] 11:00 -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 78 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 78 normal] 11:00 -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 11:01 -!- Irssi: Join to ##hplusroadmap was synced in 71 secs 11:14 < kanzure> https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/02/crispr-babies-scientist-he-jiankui-should-not-be-villainized/ 11:14 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:16 < kanzure> "As long as the children He Jiankui engineered haven't been harmed by the experiment, he is just a scientist who forged some documents to convince medical doctors to implant gene-edited embryos. The 4-minute mile of human genetic engineering has been broken. It will happen again." 11:17 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:17 < kanzure> "In the next 100 years, thousands of edited embryos will be implanted and become children. I believe that embryo editing and implantation will someday be viewed much as how IVF is viewed today. When a human embryo being edited and implanted is no longer interesting enough for a news story, will we still view He Jiankui as a villain? I don't think we will. But even if we do, He Jiankui will ... 11:18 < kanzure> ...be remembered and talked about more than any scientist of our day. Although that may seriously aggravate many scientists and bioethicists, I think he deserves that honor." 11:29 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:50 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:54 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@ip68-5-175-208.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:42 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:43 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulwalsyowfxvspkt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:55 < kanzure> .title http://web.archive.org/web/20070112001146/https://www.accelerating.org/articles/answeringfermiparadox.html 12:55 < EmmyNoether> 'Answering the Fermi Paradox', John Smart, 2002 12:58 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@2600:1012:b157:12a:28d1:5a18:cb77:68bf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:59 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@2600:1012:b157:12a:28d1:5a18:cb77:68bf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@2600:1012:b157:12a:28d1:5a18:cb77:68bf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:59 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:03 -!- Guest61734 [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:04 -!- justanotheruser [justanothe@gateway/vpn/nordvpn/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 < kanzure> this does not seem particularly different from cosmological natural selection http://evodevouniverse.com/wiki/Selfish_biocosm_hypothesis 13:33 -!- justanotheruser [justanothe@gateway/vpn/nordvpn/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:45 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:47 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21934247 13:48 < EmmyNoether> Show HN: A beetle generator made by machine-learning zoological illustrations | Hacker News 13:48 < kanzure> https://www.cunicode.com/works/confusing-coleopterists/#StyleGAN 13:52 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:20 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjmwmuusobgzmiiw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:41 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@2600:1012:b157:12a:28d1:5a18:cb77:68bf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:08 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@2600:1012:b157:12a:28d1:5a18:cb77:68bf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:17 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@58.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:38 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:41 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:08 < kanzure> "Brave New World? In defense of paradise engineering" https://www.huxley.net/ 16:09 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@2600:1012:b157:12a:28d1:5a18:cb77:68bf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:15 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:16 < kanzure> https://www.superhappiness.com/ 16:31 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e8a5ee72 Michael Folkson: Add Chris Stewart transcript from Lightning conference >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/lightning-conference/2019/2019-10-19-chris-stewart-private-key-management/ 16:31 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4ac7496d Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #66 from michaelfolkson/add-chris-stewart-private-keys >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 16:35 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c55a0c6f Bryan Bishop: add tweeter link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/lightning-conference/2019/2019-10-19-chris-stewart-private-key-management/ 16:55 < maaku> kanzure: I had set a 4-year timer to reasses the worth of lesswrong. the jury is still out. 17:03 < kanzure> i think slatestarcodex has redirected them in a better way, but it's not like "reading lots of blog posts" is a productive pursuit anyway 17:09 < maaku> I've gotten some insights from rereading the original Eliezer posts that have made it worthwhile. 17:10 < maaku> But some are very low signal to noise, and the collected "book" is worse. 17:20 < kanzure> see pms 17:30 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=a5aad266 Bryan Bishop: add GRG candidate longevity gene watchlist >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/ 18:04 < maaku> kanzure: somewhat frustratingly, SIAI/MIRI has decided to not publish further research 18:04 < maaku> just as they started actually making progress that would be useful 18:12 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:14 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:19 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:23 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:23 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:25 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Client Quit] 18:25 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:40 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@25.sub-174-195-215.myvzw.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:54 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03 < kanzure> "One irony of humanity's growing power to shape its own evolution is the identity of the architects. In 1998, I spoke at a conference on mammalian cloning in Washington, D.C., and met Ian Wilmut, the Scottish scientist whose cloning of Dolly had created such a furor the previous year. Affronted by my relative lack of concern about the eventual cloning of humans, he vehemently insisted that ... 19:03 < kanzure> ...the idea was abhorrent and that I was irresponsible to say that it would likely occur within a decade. His anger surprised me, considering that I was only speaking about human cloning, whereas he had played a role in the breakthrough that might bring it about. Incidentally, patent attorneys at the Roslin Institute, where the work occurred, and PPL Therapeutics, which funded the work, did not ... 19:03 < kanzure> ...overlook the importance of human applications, since claims on their patent specifically cover them." 19:19 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:33 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:37 < kanzure> https://www.amazon.com/Redesigning-Humans-Choosing-changing-future-dp-0618340831/dp/0618340831 19:38 < kanzure> can't find an online copy 20:15 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:22 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:25 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2606:6000:ca84:b300:d05f:d6cb:bf5a:228c] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@25.sub-174-195-215.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:32 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:35 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:44 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@ip68-5-175-208.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:44 -!- RoCxWizard [~RoCxWiz@cpe-66-68-113-113.austin.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:44 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@151.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:47 -!- RoCxWizard [~RoCxWiz@cpe-66-68-113-113.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:48 < nmz787> kanzure: just gotta find someone who will scan it for cheap 23:00 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@151.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11 -!- nmz787 [~nmz787@bryan.fairlystable.org] has quit [Changing host] 23:11 -!- nmz787 [~nmz787@unaffiliated/nmz787] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:13 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:29 -!- LeoTal [~Adium@151.170.86.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:39 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pjmwmuusobgzmiiw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:56 -!- JenElizabeth [~Jen@cpc155793-brmb11-2-0-cust474.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] --- Log closed Fri Jan 03 00:00:55 2020