--- Log opened Mon Jan 06 00:00:58 2020
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00:07 < TMA> by what measure?
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00:57 < jrayhawk> MAOIs are dangerous when combined with almost anything fun.
00:58 < jrayhawk> caffeine is legal *because* the side effect profile is so awful that people don't go to tweaking extremes on it.
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01:19 < fenn> what MAOIs promoted as "nootropics"
01:20 < fenn> are*
01:21 < fenn> iirc ginkgo is a mild MAOI, but to call it "ridiculously dangerous" is absurd
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02:21 < jrayhawk> yes, though most of the ones people really like seem to be MAO-B-Is, which are somewhat less threatening
02:24 < jrayhawk> though MAO-B-Is seem to cause some MAO-A inhibition via TAAR1
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02:32 < jrayhawk> Chocolate, kava, licorice root, green tea, turmeric, l-deprenyl, and selegiline, at least.
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02:34 < jrayhawk> https://darktka.github.io/ i wish we had a list this convenient for 2019
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04:12 < fenn> chocolate is an MAOI?
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04:14 < fenn> "It is true that curcumin can act as a MAO inhibitor, but this has only be demonstrated in animals when given intravenously at high doses."
04:14 < fenn> and i can't find anything about green tea
04:14 < fenn> as for the rest, well, all i can say is "duh"
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04:29 < nmz787> maaku: yeah but people will inevitably go out and get into non-therapeutic doses of amphetamines... doing that with caffeine isn't really fun or anything, just feel like you're gonna have a heart attack
04:30 < nmz787> jrayhawk: exactly
04:30 < nmz787> (re sideeffects)
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06:07 < maaku> nmz787: sell it laced with something harmless at therapudic doses, but which causes vomiting at recreational doses
06:08 < maaku> or just sell it like we currently do, with a pharmacist that goes over its proper use and advises you of interactions. just require the doctors' Rx
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06:26 < maaku> .title https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1905136?fbclid=IwAR23cwcrM3uSmyNbciRGaX0h6K1QcBlXdS1kfrkjjbKk3Vs7eLAUEBXpZTU
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06:26 < EmmyNoether> No title found
06:26 < maaku> "Evidence is accumulating that eating in a 6-hour period and fasting for 18 hours can trigger a metabolic switch from glucose-based to ketone-based energy, with increased stress resistance, increased longevity, and a decreased incidence of diseases, including cancer and obesity."
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07:29 < kanzure> that's a little surprising; surely it should take as long as indicated by blood glucose levels instead?
07:29 < kanzure> e.g. longer if you are hypercaloric
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07:38 < kanzure> .title https://youtu.be/IFe9wiDfb0E
07:38 < EmmyNoether> Welcome to Life: the singularity, ruined by lawyers - YouTube
07:39 < kanzure> "If you liked this, you may also enjoy two novels that provided inspiration for it: Jim Munroe's Everyone in Silico, where I first found the idea of a corporate-sponsored afterlife; and Rudy Rucker's trippy Postsingular, which introduced me to the horrifying idea of consciousness slums."
07:53 < kanzure> immortality and finance https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7wsa1d/vitalik_to_whalepool_in_contrast_to_bitcoin_i/du2tmxs/?context=3
--- Log closed Mon Jan 06 07:55:11 2020
--- Log opened Mon Jan 06 07:55:11 2020
08:02 < kanzure> "i think elon said he specifically funds [neuralink] to make it more likely humans will survive the singularity"
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08:37 < maaku> I mean, he has said that
08:54 < kanzure> yeah i didn't know that.
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10:11 < superkuh> maaku, I've spent some time catching up to date on caffeine mechanism of action. I still don't understand why you think they're equivalent. The closest thing I could find was adenosine receptor inhibition causing some minor upregulation of d2/d3 receptor. But this wouldn't have the same effect as direct dopamine agonism. What mechanism of action were you thinking of?
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11:40 < nmz787> maaku: "just sell it like we currently do" -- then there's nothing changing, I thought you were comparing caffeine to it, and why it should be scheduled
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12:41 < jrayhawk> kanzure: glucose is toxic and glycogen is mass/volume inefficient, so both wind up being kept to homeostatic levels. hypercaloric glucose typically get converted to palmitic acid.
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15:14 < lsneff> Is anyone here on NMN or NR?
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17:00 < maaku> explain your acronyms
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19:36 < heath> https://www.elysiumhealth.com/en-us/knowledge/science-101/nmn-and-nr-how-these-nad-precursors-measure-up
19:36 < heath> first google search result for "nmn"
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22:02 < fenn> it's just another formulation of niacin, vitamin B-3, and i've only ever heard faceface call it "NMN"
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22:12 < fenn> nicotinamide mononucleotide
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--- Log closed Tue Jan 07 00:01:01 2020