--- Log opened Tue Jan 28 00:00:22 2020
00:05 < nsh> .t https://phys.org/news/2020-01-lab-trash-valuable-graphene.html
00:06 < EmmyNoether> Lab turns trash into valuable graphene in a flash
00:06 < nsh> --
00:06 < nsh> As reported in Nature, flash graphene is made in 10 milliseconds by heating carbon-containing materials to 3,000 Kelvin (about 5,000 degrees Fahrenheit). The source material can be nearly anything with carbon content. Food waste, plastic waste, petroleum coke, coal, wood clippings and biochar are prime candidates, Tour said. "With the present commercial price of graphene being $67,000 to $200,000 per ton, the prospects for this process look superb," he
00:06 < nsh> said.
00:06 < nsh> --
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02:51 < nmz787> maaku: sharenting, bad? whaaaaaa?
02:52 < maaku> I know, right? Maybe I'm just oldschool, but...
02:52 < nmz787> it's so prevalent, I even see old university profs doing it and i'm like :/
02:52 < nmz787> (on twitter)
02:57 < nmz787> nsh: only thing I can think about responding to that is... wouldn't the non-carbon minerals cause defects in the graphene, such that at least their nanoscale properties wouldn't be homogenous enough to, say, make integrated circuit components, etc?
02:59 < nmz787> maaku: very cool video (paint drying)
03:02 < maaku> nmz787: the guy in the paint-drying video is Philip J. Moriarty, who got a grant to experimentally validate the Drexler-Merkle path to molecular nanotechnology
03:03 < maaku> https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/~ppzstm/
03:03 < maaku> er, Merkle-Freitas path to Drexlarian nanotechnology
03:16 < nmz787> oh, cool, they've got some neat papers
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07:19 < kanzure> "This is well known in academia and exist outside of Media Lab as well. For example, I asked a professor (not associated with the Media Lab) about using hype to get grants. He said: "It's just like the stock market right, money goes here, it goes there, it's all story telling. I have to tell stories too because if I don't, then other people will tell this story and get the money. But I think ...
07:19 < kanzure> ...I can use it better than other people." This is a very "well-respected" Ivy League professor in applied machine learning."
07:19 < kanzure> from ted nelson's rant against MIT media lab: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22169775 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH4Kr3Gsadc
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07:30 < kanzure> thing to download a part of a torrent to extract the article you're looking for on scihub https://github.com/frrad/skyhub
07:30 < kanzure> https://github.com/frrad/skyhub/blob/master/lib/skyhub/skyhub.go
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08:41 < lsneff> I'm surprised that we aren't seeing more public instances of scihub stood up
08:48 < kanzure> requires a lot of equipment. there's a cost. plus liability. not surprised.
08:49 < kanzure> and very few people have a complete copy
08:49 < kanzure> presently takes on the order of months to get a complete copy
08:49 < kanzure> which is longer than some people's patience.
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11:13 < BookShagger> @find finfish
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11:40 < kanzure> academia shouldn't be about hype and sales https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22170352
11:44 < archels> I thought you'd be in favour of market forces, kanzure
11:45 < archels> don't want to say libertarian, but in that arena
11:48 < kanzure> archels: government funding isn't market forces really
11:50 < kanzure> https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/15/researchers-facing-shocking-levels-of-stress-survey-reveals
11:50 < kanzure> https://wellcome.ac.uk/reports/what-researchers-think-about-research-culture
11:51 < lsneff> How would you prefer it be done, kanzyre?
11:55 < kanzure> well, if it must be based on hype, "reputation" and sales ability and not science or fact, then at the very least we should be clear that it is based on those factors instead of science or facts
11:56 < kanzure> otherwise it would be intellectually dishonest to imply that somehow our science makes our proclamations somehow better than others, when in fact we're not using the science to come to those determinations
12:13 < LeoTal> Science is more or less dead. I left research because it's so strangled by bureaucracy and competition for grants that almost nothing gets done. (Ok, also because I sucked at it.) And that's physics, which is much easier than anything involving squishy noisy humans. I expect that (1) it will never recover (2) a new, thriving research community will grow again, exactly like it did the first time around, of amateurs messing around i
12:13 < LeoTal> n their free time and publishing things by actually making them public (but with blog posts instead of letters).
12:15 < LeoTal> Admittedly for now it's pretty much just gwern
12:22 < kanzure> gwern is an idiot and a scam artist https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3vzgnd/bitcoins_creator_satoshi_nakamoto_is_probably/cxsa9hs/
12:24 < kanzure> and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/more-anti-gwern.txt
12:25 < LeoTal> I'm reading this but assuming you're 100% right and he's 100% wrong that says nothing about the value of his home research (catnip, LSD microdosing, sleep, etc.)
12:26 < kanzure> if he is willing to get the big things wrong then why should you trust his other work
12:28 < kanzure> this isn't a case of being wrong and then correcting yourself; this is *willng* deceit
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12:41 < LeoTal> Okay, so I see that 1) he made some dumb mistakes (some factual, some in analysis) 2) he put someone in danger and I see how that'd stick in your craw. And I see how that relates to my point: if the only person rebooting science is not actually trustworthy, that's a community of zero, not much hope there for science. But also this is clearly a personal vendetta where any mere mention of the guy's name in a completely different con
12:41 < LeoTal> text prompts virulent rants and links to posts where you insult him with no thought how that looks to someone who doesn't start out super mad about it. So I'm just gonna go now. Y'all have fun
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12:42 < kanzure> guess i insulted his hero
12:43 < kanzure> probably should have mentioned how i think lesswrong is bad too.
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12:51 < archels> I basically have $25 in free Mouser order due to a free shipping price break
12:51 < archels> what to get, what to get
12:54 < kanzure> icestorm-compatible fpga?
12:59 < archels> what about blinkenlights though
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13:16 < kanzure> "Offline transactions in mimblewimble" https://gist.github.com/DavidBurkett/32e33835b03f9101666690b7d6185203
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13:57 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/Sci_Hub/status/1221827163781058562
13:57 < EmmyNoether> do you want to see what the very first Sci-Hub download statistics looked alike? here http://sci-hub.se/downloads/ancient.sci-hub.stats.7z Sci-Hub stats from 2011 to 2013 are available for analysis https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPTNUujWkAEcMRQ.jpg (@Sci_Hub)
14:07 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/PeterFRMills/status/1222211255554969600
14:07 < EmmyNoether> "The Gene Gap: Who would you trust to edit the human race?" Looking forward to discussing science, ethics and politics of human #genomeediting in about an hour's time with @GunesTaylor and @DrHelenONeill #GuardianLive: https://membership.theguardian.com/event/the-gene-gap-who-would-you-trust-to-edit-the-human-race-82581829475 (@PeterFRMills)
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14:43 < lsneff> I think it'd be cool if the research community got bootstrapped by diy hobbyists.
14:43 < lsneff> *a new research community
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14:56 < kanzure> 14:40 < gmaxwell> kanzure: he got wired to retract that original article after my minor public campaign over it.
14:57 < kanzure> 14:40 < gmaxwell> it shouldn't have taken so much work, but he did eventually do something right.
14:57 < kanzure> this is news to me.
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17:55 < maaku> "he" in this case is gwern?
18:06 < maaku> I mean calling people out as Satoshi is perhaps the most reckless, uncaring, and douche thing you can do.
18:06 < maaku> It demonstrated a complete lack of moral judgement, even if he later retracted it.
18:08 < kanzure> thank you
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18:21 < lsneff> I wonder whether the myth of Satoshi had a positive effect on the adoption of bitcoin
18:22 < jrayhawk> for a community so ostensibly into consequentialism, they sure seem to have encoded truth as a virtue to the point that they earnestly believe "that which can be destroyed by the truth should be", even if it's obviously-high-utility human lives. ironicly, for all that, there's still so little ability to distinguish truth from falsity.
18:30 < MarkOtaris> I think calling out satoshi is bad if you expect harm to happen as a result regardless of whether you're very confident and legitimately or not
18:30 < MarkOtaris> so I don't understand why the argument being made in some of these reddit and hn comments is this particular argument that hinges on the claims not being sufficiently credible or not being careful or confident enough
18:31 < MarkOtaris> rather, these commenters should be making an argument that it's bad to call out satoshi period--even if you're (assume, legitimately) completely sure that the person really is satoshi
18:31 < MarkOtaris> and, I doubt any of these authors want satoshi harmed, but in the event that they *did*, the argument would still make little sense, since how much we should expect the clam to put the person in danger is proportional to how credible the claim is
18:33 < fenn> most people playing the "discover satoshi" game just think it's a neat and challenging puzzle, and haven't really given thought to the consequences
18:33 < fenn> but gwern knew, and persisted
18:41 < kanzure> and even knew that his evidence was bad...
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19:02 < maaku> MarkOtaris: once a credible person makes the claim that someone else is satoshi, saying "but you shouldn't have said it!" makes people think you're validating the claim
19:03 < maaku> so if your goal is to minimize harm, you need to either stay silent or refute the claim
19:08 < MarkOtaris> That's probably true as a psychological argument
19:09 < MarkOtaris> even then, refuting the claim plus "also, you shouldn't try to make his identity public" is better than "you should only have said it if your evidence had been good, which it isn't"
19:18 < kanzure> it was pretty fascinating to see how many people don't understand cryptography
19:18 < kanzure> like what a signature is or under what circumstances one could be said to have been verified true
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19:38 < kanzure> "I know who eliezer yudkowsky is. I coould've sworn you were a lesswrong'er."
19:38 < kanzure> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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21:04 < maaku> zero seeders on the scihub torrents :(
21:20 < jrayhawk> i think the conclusion was that the scihub torrents are a honeypot
21:21 < jrayhawk> they are there to keep you from successfully building a mirror
21:26 < fenn> not if someone seeds them
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21:31 < jrayhawk> they aren't, and, additionally, the data is structured in such a way that it is incompatible with every other mirroring strategy
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 29 00:00:23 2020