--- Log opened Sun Feb 16 00:00:41 2020 00:10 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btsmmgmcbgytldqn] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:20 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqjczerkmlirovde] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:54 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:04 -!- ptrcmd [~ptrcmd@unaffiliated/petercommand] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:27 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:42 -!- Solgriffin [sid282649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdikjndxmspykxzh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42 -!- Solgriffin [sid282649@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-asymprgkcwiewysb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:00 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fqjczerkmlirovde] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:29 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btsmmgmcbgytldqn] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:42 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dilnbcqpbovxyoeh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:15 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:43 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:09 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:53 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:27 -!- fox2p [~fox2p@cpe-66-108-32-173.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:47 -!- Meddlesome [5abe4456@90.190.68.86] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:25 < kanzure> "Organizing genome engineering for the gigabase scale" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14314-z 08:49 < docl> .tw https://twitter.com/Simon_Whitten/status/1228991240345137158 08:49 < saxo> The view that eugenics is simply the application of selective breeding principles to humans and that it was abandoned solely for ideological reasons is entirely ahistoric. https://twitter.com/RichardDawkins/status/1228943686953664512 (@Simon_Whitten) 10:06 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:11 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:11 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:38 < kanzure> hmph 11:03 < juri_> ok, I am officially the author of the worst slicer in existence. :) 11:28 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:36 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 12:00 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dilnbcqpbovxyoeh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 12:01 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:08 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:39 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:43 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:48 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:55 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:23 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:20 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:24 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/robinhanson/status/1228400896507367424 15:24 < saxo> Though it is a disturbing & extreme option, we should seriously consider deliberately infecting folks with coronavirus, to spread out the number of critically ill people over time, and to ensure that critical infrastructure remains available to help sick. / http://www.overcomingbias.com/2020/02/consider-controlled-infection.html (@robinhanson) 15:29 < maaku> I saw that tweet, and don't understand it at all. 15:30 < maaku> Better people don't get sick at all, no? 15:31 < jrayhawk> "Better"? 15:34 < jrayhawk> Most of the work force for infrastructure has some degree of redundancy, which allows for e.g. sick/vacation days to exist with minimal economic disruption. The key is to keep the entire workforce from taking their sick/vacation days all at once. 15:41 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/rabidrager/status/1229073838870274048 15:41 < saxo> @hippo_named_Dan @RacismDog Eugenics is the practice of preventing a race from procreating to remove them from the gene pool. It's one part of the UN definitions of genocide. Usually, it involves the involuntary sterilization of men and women based on race. (@rabidrager, in reply to tw:1229071944324087808) 15:43 < kanzure> docl: the "master race" stuff is doubly ironic because the master race was actually not engineered at all, it was about devolution 15:46 < maaku> jrayhawk: The key is to keep most of the workforce from taking their sick days _at all_ 15:49 < jrayhawk> good luck with that 15:49 < kanzure> .wik master race 15:49 < saxo> "The master race (German: Herrenrasse, also referred to as Herrenvolk (help.info) 'master people') is a concept in Nazi ideology in which the putative Nordic or Aryan races, predominant among Germans and other northern European peoples, are deemed the highest in racial [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race 15:52 < kanzure> not sure how anyone can confuse that with genetic engineering 15:53 < jrayhawk> there is a non-politicized definition 15:56 < jrayhawk> tbh i am reasonably certain that the purity-motivated factions will work quite a lot harder to add negative affect to every possible term you could use for human genetic engineering than anyone is willing to do to stop them, so you get to choose between semantic churn or standing your ground 15:59 < jrayhawk> it's plausible that there's some objective utility in allowing eugenics to be the one allowable term to mean "human genetic engineering i don't like", but i am not convinced 16:02 < kanzure> okay, so take eugenics and defend it, but what are you recommending to mean "coercive government forced genetic engineering and/or sterilization" 16:03 < maaku> jrayhawk: purposefully getting people sick risks spreading the infection further 16:04 < maaku> and nobody does a very good job of disinfecting surfaces, so you end up with virus particles persisting everywhere in the environment of the person that was sick 16:04 < docl> maaku: isn't the idea to infect people in controlled circumstances, so when they get well they will be immune? 16:05 < maaku> If they get well. But what about the people caring for them? 16:05 < docl> i.e. use controlled infection as a crude vaccine (because supposedly it would take over a year to develop one) 16:05 < jrayhawk> And Robin's argument is that there's a point where the "risk of infection" becomes a "certainty of infection, the only mutable variable is when" 16:05 < maaku> Okay then Robin has gone way off the deep end. 16:05 < docl> hmm. it takes a while to incubate. so maybe people in the incubation phase can care for sick ones 16:06 < maaku> Yes, I'm sure that makes sense if you resign yourself to everyone in the world catching COVID-19, just like everyone caught Ebola, SARS, and MERS 16:06 < jrayhawk> Those are much easier to identify and quarantine. 16:06 < maaku> Containment *does* work 16:07 < jrayhawk> This is probably more comperable to herpes. 16:07 < kanzure> unscheduled containment and quarantine also have economic impacts. 16:07 < kanzure> i think having scheduled downtime makes more sense 16:10 < jrayhawk> At least, in terms of asymptomatic viral shedding. 16:10 < jrayhawk> It seems to be quite a bit more robust to the environment. 16:17 < jrayhawk> kanzure: Quite a lot of the more memorable horrifying outcomes of eugenics projects were non-governmental or non-coercive, so those implications can't be concisely evoked by that term anyway. 16:21 -!- turona [~quassel@2a01:c22:ac1e:7100:d1de:fa3b:99:c739] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:22 < jrayhawk> I do like the construction of "coercive eugenics" you've been using lately, but it's very lazy and implausible to pretend like that's cutting reality at the joints to such an extent that you can just leave off the "coercive" part. 16:24 -!- turona [~quassel@2a01:c23:6060:2800:ee69:ac1f:b8ba:2556] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:35 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:37 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/pabbeel/status/1229190080331309057 16:37 < saxo> Want to learn some modern robotics? // All lecture videos from CS287 Advanced Robotics Fall'19 offering are now available online. // https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~pabbeel/cs287-fa19/ https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQ713R6U8AEExnF.png (@pabbeel) 17:12 -!- cpopell [ce37ae06@206.55.174.6] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:16 < kanzure> cpopell: be greeted 17:16 < cpopell> How's it going, man? 17:24 < kanzure> everything is proceeding as i have foreseen 17:24 < cpopell> Well 17:24 < cpopell> Props to you on a lot of fronts, really 17:46 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:29 < lsneff> Everything? Impressive 18:31 < lsneff> I drew some (stylized) molecular assembler art for a uni project: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/kKvNjjlt/Molecular%20Assembler.png 18:34 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:34 -!- Meddlesome [5abe4456@90.190.68.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:35 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:19 < maaku> I'm pretty sure the term "eugenics" was originally used to describe both coercisve and non-coercive management of the genetic pool 19:20 < maaku> but since it's got so much negative baggage I'm 100% okay with it being defined more narrowly 19:20 < maaku> I just don't think that's historically accurate though 19:24 < cpopell> the problem is that some people define it narrowly and others don't 19:29 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:36 -!- adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:55 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:08 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:28 -!- abetusk [~abe@68.175.143.22] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:50 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:53 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:01 < ptrcmd> maaku: cpopell: maybe people should just create a new term 23:01 < cpopell> easier said than done 23:33 < nsh> hacker here, how hard can be it... 23:33 < saxo> nsh: https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1228988763264684032 --- Log closed Mon Feb 17 00:00:41 2020