--- Log opened Sun Mar 15 00:00:22 2020 00:02 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qvboydtpmwvlpgrf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:38 < dingo> woa h what an address 00:38 < dingo> is that legal 00:38 < dingo> oh, i'm on freenode. i forgot. first time in years. 00:39 < dingo> i'm working on a new ssh-only hackerchat space for python 3 asyncio, with my 'blessed' terminal library and the 'asyncssh' library and such, wish me luck 00:39 < dingo> much like freenode, hostnames will be masked or some such 00:40 < dingo> i'm thinking shucks just pay for geoip, and use cute little unicode terminal flags or some such, i want to make a faux irc client and server all-in-one, nothing to execute or install, just ssh user@host. i suppose a few folks have done it before, including myself, but hey .. 01:48 < adlai> discussion of cooking suggests to me a new degree of steak: "done well enough that nobody else will say 'mmm, yours looks good, can i try some?'" 03:00 < juri_> so, trump-style. 03:43 -!- dingo [~jq@c-71-198-233-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 2.7] 04:53 < archels_> TMA: separate sets of cutlery for raw and cooked food (meat, fish etc) seems like basic kitchen practice to me 05:16 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:12 < archels_> in a few hours: CabonCopies livestream on whole brain emulation https://carboncopies.org/updating-the-roadmap-to-whole-brain-emulation-part-4-successful-minduploading-what-is-personal-identity-and-how-can-it-survive-mind-uploading/ 06:46 < kanzure> .title https://academic.oup.com/glycob/article/18/12/1085/1988773 06:46 < saxo> Inhibition of the interaction between the SARS-CoV Spike protein and its cellular receptor by anti-histo-blood group antibodies | Glycobiology | Oxford Academic 06:47 < kanzure> archels_: good link 06:47 < kanzure> wonder what he has been up to lately 06:48 < kanzure> oh wait this isn't who i thought it was 06:49 < kanzure> i'm thinking of https://brainbackups.com/ https://twitter.com/brainbackups 07:03 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:35 < TMA> archels_: it is sadly not. jews have separate sets for meat and dairy. I don't know the details but a quick search does not prohibit using meat utensils for fish (washed and after a proper TIME_WAIT period) 07:36 < TMA> and raw/cooked doesn't seem to me to play a role in that either 07:42 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:54 < fenn> not any jews that i know do that (of the ones that try to keep kosher) 07:54 < fenn> wild thought: people should do what makes sense according to modern science 07:59 < TMA> that's pretty radical. 08:08 < TMA> next time someone proposes mandatory thinking (thereby curtailing the basic freedom/human right to remain stupid) 08:24 < lsneff> It's more complicated because the concept of right to choose conflicts with other people's health in this context. 08:41 < lsneff> Are Movies Getting Worse Because We Don’t Have Warp Drive? – WIRED | WIRED (https://www.wired.com/2020/03/warp-drive-movies/) 08:44 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07 < lsneff> Doesn't even have to be ftl, even something that can just get a ship up to a substantial fraction would be enough. 09:15 < archels_> kanzure: Russell Hanson was the chap kicked out of MIT for airing his views on whole brain emulation, right? 09:18 < lsneff> I thought that was Robert McIntyre 09:20 < archels_> ah yes, you're right 09:20 < archels_> he's with Nectome 09:21 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:25 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:29 < lsneff> I wonder if his work with c. elegans has shown any progress. 09:30 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:47 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:59 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:11 < kanzure> lsneff: robert was already out of MIT, but he had a partnership with ed boyden that was axed due to antonio regalado's reporting i think 10:12 < lsneff> kanzure: Have you met robert? 10:13 < kanzure> of course 10:13 < kanzure> i also have someone embedded on his team 10:27 < lsneff> A mole! How exciting! 10:30 < lsneff> It does sound like a very interesting project to work on. 10:31 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc5G04nJecI 10:36 < archels_> .title 10:36 < saxo> Austin Powers THE MOLE - YouTube 10:37 < archels_> -_- 10:43 < lsneff> lmao 11:32 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/sama/status/1239227783613726721 11:32 < saxo> Funding for COVID-19 projects: https://blog.samaltman.com/funding-for-covid-19-projects (@sama) 11:39 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: sknebel 11:40 -!- Netsplit over, joins: sknebel 11:43 < kanzure> https://biohackinfo.com/news-coronavirus-coronope-vaccine-diy-corohope-covid-19/ 11:54 < lsneff> Is it corohope or coronope? 11:57 < kanzure> you'd have to ask them 12:00 < lsneff> Good point haha 12:19 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:36 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Hooloovo0, kanzure 12:36 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Hooloovo0 12:36 -!- kanzure_ [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:40 -!- pepesza- [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:41 -!- pepesza [~pepesza@185.83.218.228] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:30 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: midnight, LarchOye, nickjohnson 13:30 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30 -!- nickjohnson [sid789@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvlrzwnrgisywqcz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:33 -!- LarchOye [nonmoose@spaceweed.spacetechnology.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:44 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:57 -!- midnight [~midnight@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:12 -!- Hooloovo0 [Hooloovoo@sorunome.de] has quit [Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.] 14:18 -!- komb04674 [~hhhify774@147.253.37.15] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:19 -!- komb04674 [~hhhify774@147.253.37.15] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] 14:29 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffqngasmykznvfld] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:20 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: 0123456789] 15:34 < maaku> lsneff: there really isn't a conflict of rights. even libertarians agree that my right to swing my fists in the air ends at your face 15:35 < maaku> by the exact same logic, your right to go out clubbing tonight ends when doing so significantly endangers people who were not consented 15:41 < lsneff> I think we're agreeing with eachother actually 15:41 < maaku> probably 15:42 < maaku> as to sci-fi, I think it's just a problem of going mainstream. everything that goes mainstream gets dumbed down 15:42 < maaku> that article triggered me by lumping sci-fi and fantasy together though 15:43 < maaku> Game of Thrones so obviously belongs in an article with "warp drive" in the title 15:44 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:17 < lsneff> Yes haha, that's true 16:17 < lsneff> Articles are getting dumbed down too 16:28 < lsneff> I do wish scifi would do warp drives better 16:57 -!- Hooloovo0 [Hooloovoo@sorunome.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:33 < lsneff> Online classes start tomorrow. 17:34 < lsneff> Wish me luck 17:45 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ffqngasmykznvfld] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:49 -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure 18:00 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-krlsfgrbiynsujko] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:42 < maaku> lsneff: or not do warp drives at all 18:42 < maaku> Revelation Space is a pretty good universe without FTL for most of it 18:43 < lsneff> Well, stl warp drives is safe enough for me 18:43 < lsneff> Revelation Space is one of my favorite series 18:44 < lsneff> But a wormhole that pulls plasma from the most moments of the universe into the present to use as reaction mass is about as far off as warp drives. 18:44 < maaku> the conjoiner drive might as well be magic though 18:45 < lsneff> *first 18:45 < maaku> yea, jinks 18:45 < lsneff> In fact, warp drives might be more plausible. 18:45 < lsneff> There's at least some theory behind them. 18:45 < maaku> I wasn't happy about that explanation. In fact the series went downhill after that. 18:45 < superkuh> http://superkuh.com/hardscifi.txt 18:46 < maaku> I had, until then, assumed they were black hole drives 18:46 < maaku> .wik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_starship 18:46 < saxo> "A black hole starship is a theoretical idea for enabling interstellar travel by propelling a starship by using a black hole as the energy source." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_starship 18:46 < maaku> superkuh: nice list, thanks 18:46 < Urchin> maaku: there were indications that Martin was going to integrate Game of Thrones into his main science fiction setting as a post-apocalyptic thing 18:47 < maaku> superkuh: Revelation Space is missing from that list though 18:47 < superkuh> Eh, I don't really like those. 18:47 < superkuh> I've read them all. 18:47 < superkuh> Just having no FTL doesn't make it hard scifi. 18:47 < Urchin> maaku: with Planetos being a lost space colony that got nuked or something 18:48 < maaku> superkuh: I would say that Rev Space and most of the short stories are all hard scifi. Reynolds is best known for having rebooted hard scifi space opera 18:48 < Urchin> I've heard conjoiner drives were originally pretty much the same as the conversion drives in orion's arm 18:48 < Urchin> though I can't confirm that, really 18:49 < superkuh> The weapons in it approach the fantasy line. 18:49 < lsneff> My choice for conjoiner drives would be conversion with a non-orientable wormhole 18:49 < superkuh> But okay, sure, it's hard scifi. 18:49 < lsneff> Yeah, the weapons are ridiculous. 18:49 < superkuh> But that list is the best hard scifi. 18:50 < superkuh> This list is all hard scifi, http://erewhon.superkuh.com/library/Fiction/ login:pass = books:Xplr 18:50 < superkuh> Well, almost all. 18:50 < maaku> Oh yeah I forgot about the weapons cache. 18:51 < lsneff> Point-defence weapons that can blow a hole in a planet's crust 18:51 < lsneff> Not even one of the cache weapons 18:51 < maaku> lsneff: nah those are reasonable, if you have two conjoiner drives and 4km spacecraft 18:52 < maaku> just a big kinetic weapon 18:52 < maaku> though I don't remember how they're described in the book 18:52 < Urchin> I was just about to go read Galactic North 18:52 < maaku> Urchin: worth it, if you haven't. Great short story on its own. 18:53 < superkuh> I'm finishing up a re-read of Charles Sheffield's "Tomorrow and Tomorrow". 18:53 < maaku> Diamon Dogs is another great standalone in that universe 18:53 < lsneff> superkuh: what'd you thunk? 18:53 < lsneff> *think 18:53 < superkuh> It's entertaining. Skipping across the surface of time. The primitive man from the past needed to think violent thoughts trope is overused but eh, it works. 19:01 < lsneff> Yeah, I thought the same. 19:01 < lsneff> I really do like the concept of jumping through time 19:03 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnwytlrqgrpsprgf] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:03 < superkuh> Stephen Baxter just published his "World Engines: Destroyer" book which is another man from the past goes to the future to help them and their blind ways story. 19:03 < superkuh> I stopped read it to read Tomorrow... though. 19:04 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:17 < lsneff> In a way, reading scifi, even hard scifi, makes me kind of sad because they often have technologies (like the conjoiner drives) that would make space exploration so much easier, but will probably never actually exist. 19:17 < lsneff> The laws of physics are too constrictive ugh 19:17 < maaku> lsneff: read the link above on black hole starships 19:18 < lsneff> I've heard about them before. 19:18 < lsneff> I'd put them down as speculative. 19:19 < maaku> AFAIK just the method of construction is speculative 19:20 < lsneff> Right 19:21 < lsneff> I don't have the math on hand atm, but I believe it'd take a while (several months to a year) to generate the antimatter for an array of winterblasters, even with a full dyson swarm 19:21 < lsneff> The winterblasters use antimatter to create a gamma ray laser 19:21 < maaku> a kardashev type 2 civilization could use the full output of a star to power a solar-system sized accelerator to smash two multi-ton rocks together 19:22 < lsneff> That seems a bit iffy. 19:22 < lsneff> Can you really make a black hole by smashing rocks together? 19:22 < lsneff> I'd imagine they'd be too large 19:22 < lsneff> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a3c9/586be758f5ba2c97a49ec7c29f22249eec88.pdf 19:23 < maaku> You might need to contain the debris at the moment of impact with your gamma-ray lasers 19:24 < maaku> I mean I'm not arguing it's easy. But the napkin math shows it is technically possible. 19:24 < maaku> So, the same standard we view terrestrial fusion power as possible. 19:25 < lsneff> hmm 19:25 < lsneff> I suppose so 19:26 < maaku> But that's probably >1,000 years in the future 19:26 < lsneff> I'd love to see a hard-scifi book include black hole starships 19:26 < lsneff> Yes 19:26 < maaku> Well, like I said I thought that was revelation space until I got to the sequel :P 19:26 < maaku> You could build conjoiner ships with a black hole drive 19:27 < lsneff> The conjoiner drives do have the ability to turn off and restart though. 19:27 < lsneff> Blackhole drives can't do that 19:28 < lsneff> Just turn off hawking radiation :P 19:28 < maaku> The engine is always on, but that doesn't mean you have to have their full power output into thrusting 19:29 < maaku> In "off" mode it'd be reflecting the radiation back in, and just radiating what heat is picked up in the process 19:29 < lsneff> Right 19:29 < lsneff> Okay, that makes sense yeah 19:30 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:31 < maaku> I suspect actually that Reynolds started with black hole drives and later changed how they work for plot reasons. 19:31 < lsneff> Huh, that could explain things yeah 19:32 < maaku> Because if you do the napkin math on the minimum size for a long-lived black hole drive, two of them (which you'd need for symmetrical thrust if you can't fully turn them off) would push a 4km mountain at 1g 19:32 < maaku> hence, conjoiner ships that are 4km long with magical 1g constant thrust engines 19:32 < lsneff> I think they went up to 10g in the first book at one point, but that could probably be explained by dumping a bunch of hydrogen into the exhaust 19:33 < maaku> Yeah. I recall it being mentioned in some of the short stories that the ship's mass is reconfigurable and sometimes consumed by stuff like that. 19:33 < maaku> Maybe part of the ice shield. 19:34 < lsneff> Buzzard ramjets would work for blackhole drives too I think 19:34 < lsneff> Well, if you can squeeze a hydrogen atom down enough to fit into the black hole 19:35 < lsneff> Oh also, the ice shield wouldn't actually work 19:35 < lsneff> It would get worn away too quickly 19:36 < maaku> It's been a while since I did the math but I think the schwarzschild radius is macroscopic, like a few cm or something 19:38 < lsneff> wikipedia says 0.9 attometers 19:38 < lsneff> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_starship 19:39 < maaku> Yeah I just found an online calculator that gave similar numbers for a 200kT black hole 19:39 < maaku> :( 19:39 < maaku> Refueling it would be an issue then 19:40 < lsneff> Yeah, I dunno how you'd even do that. 19:40 < lsneff> Making gamma rays with a frequency high enough would be extremely difficult 19:41 < maaku> Probably by merging black holes when you take it in for servicing. 19:42 < lsneff> I've never really seen a good plan for creating this attoscopic blackholes. It's kind of hand-wavey. 19:42 < lsneff> You mentioned a giant asteroid accelerator. Do you have sources for that? 19:43 < lsneff> A non-orientable wormhole would be even better than a black hole drive imo. 19:43 < maaku> I did read that from somewhere, but I don't remember where. Probably a british interplanetary society paper. 19:44 < lsneff> I have a cache of those, will search when I have time 20:09 < lsneff> This is an interesting paper from jbis https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/aSCzR5gf/The%20Electromagnetic%20Quantum%20Vacuum%20Warp%20Drive.pdf 20:10 < lsneff> If I'm reading it correctly, it comes up with a way to do warp drive without negative mass 20:13 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/physics/astrophysics/black-holes/Are%20black%20hole%20starships%20possible%3f.pdf 20:13 < lsneff> It requires the polarizable vacuum theory though 20:13 < lsneff> .wik polarizable_vacuum 20:13 < saxo> "Gravitation can be described via a scalar theory of gravitation, using a stratified conformally flat metric, in which the field equation arises from the notion that the vacuum behaves like an optical polarizable medium. / It was proposed by R. H. Dicke (1957) and then H. E. [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizable_vacuum 20:17 < fenn> "black hole starship" sounds like a band name 20:22 < lsneff> What's this channel's opinion of the mach effect? 20:40 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.145] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44 < lsneff> It seems a bit more plausible than the emdrive, but not much more 20:56 < maaku> lsneff: what do you mean by opinion? it's physical if that's the question 20:56 < maaku> horribly inefficient though 20:57 < maaku> might as well use that wattage to push the interstellar medium 20:58 < maaku> maybe useful between galaxies or to cross the galactic voids? 21:01 < lsneff> The opinion is whether you believe that the effect exists or is just experimental error. 21:02 < lsneff> maaku: The existence of a working propulsionless drive is very exciting, even if it's very inefficient. 21:03 < lsneff> Apparently, the mach effect can also generate negative energy something or other 21:03 < maaku> bah, it's not interesting negative energy 21:04 < maaku> like "negative temperature", it's just an artifact of how we normally calculate these things that a negative number shows up 21:04 < maaku> not actual "negative energy" in some absolute sense 21:05 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnwytlrqgrpsprgf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:06 < maaku> I attended a lecture by one of the NASA mach effect thruster folks last september. Once you grok how it works, it's not really that surprising or interesting. 21:07 < maaku> Ultimately it works by directional radiation of gravitational waves. Which is about as efficient as it sounds. 21:08 < maaku> So it's not "propulsionless". It's just converting electricity (via piezoelectric crystals) into a push against spacetime itself. The propulsion is your source of energy. 21:09 < maaku> *the propellant is your source of energy 21:22 < lsneff> maaku: The lecture from heidi fearn? 21:22 < lsneff> So, basically the thrust/watt ends up being the same as a photon rocket? 21:24 < lsneff> Also, how does this work, but that relativistic helical particle accelerator not work? 21:38 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zvvzyagxadbrhnod] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:06 < maaku> .title https://www.projectbaseline.com/study/covid-19/ 22:06 < saxo> COVID-19 | Project Baseline 22:06 < maaku> ugh. 22:06 < maaku> COVID-19 testing in Santa Clara and San Mateo counties, provided by Google 22:19 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:00 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-23-46.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:15 < nmz787_> nanotech is a lot harder than biotech, for stupid reasons like getting things clean is a LOT harder than getting things sterile 23:40 -!- nmz787_ is now known as nmz787 23:40 -!- nmz787 [~nmz787@bryan.fairlystable.org] has quit [Changing host] 23:40 -!- nmz787 [~nmz787@unaffiliated/nmz787] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Mon Mar 16 00:00:23 2020