--- Log opened Mon Mar 16 00:00:23 2020
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03:55 < fenn> the "mach effect" "thruster" is nothing more than a slightly asymmetric heat radiation pattern
03:55 < fenn> an LED would be a more efficient means of propulsion
03:57 < fenn> i'm surprised the wikipedia article on black hole starships doesn't even mention anything about using a propellant (reaction mass) to augment the thrust of a black hole, like a nuclear thermal rocket
03:58 < fenn> surely there's some way to shoot a beam of ions close enough to the black hole that it picks up obscene amounts of incident radiation, but not so close that it falls in
03:59 < fenn> you would need to feed the black hole anyway, to keep it from disappearing, so the mechanism must already exist
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04:53 < lsneff> I'm not so sure about that.
04:53 < lsneff> They've put them in enclosed boxes, which should prevent a photon thruster from producing any thrust
05:52 < kanzure> https://www.humanegenomics.com/blog/proposal-for-vaccine-for-covid-19/
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06:28 < fenn> shouldn't there be like billions of dollars being dumped into literally any vaccine project with a chance in hell
06:29 < fenn> i mean where did all that money go
06:29 < fenn> when the stocks fall, the money goes somewhere else
06:31 < fenn> humane genomics' idea sounds reasonable, but "just putting this out there in case someone wants to read it" is not how things get done
06:32 < fenn> i guess it's nice to have a webpage to point at
06:40 < TMA> fenn: that's not how the stock market works
06:42 < TMA> fenn: imagine a piece of paper that says "I represent an investment of $100.000" now pick a pen, strike out the $100.000 and write $80.000. Observe that $20.000 in cash failed to materialize.
06:44 < TMA> fenn: it did not go anywhere or to anyone... the $20.000 just ceased to exist altogether (whether the existence was substantiated in the first place is altogether different question)
06:46 < TMA> the conservation laws for money do not exist in the same sense as the conservation of momentum or of energy
06:48 < TMA> there are money conserving transactions, money creating transactions and money destroying transactions.
06:50 < TMA> the later two types have two subtypes each, namely "legal when made by private parties" and "legal when made by lawful authority only"
07:12 < archels_> ethicality/practicality of using serum from cured patients to heal the sick?
07:12 < archels_> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7029759/ discuss this option
07:13 < kanzure> "One-time verifably encrypted signatures AKA adaptor signatures" https://github.com/LLFourn/one-time-VES/blob/master/main.pdf
07:15 < kanzure> route blinding https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/route-blinding/proposals/route-blinding.md
07:20 < fltrz> how are amino acids from food distributed throughout the human body? all through the blood stream?
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07:39 < abetusk> If I wanted to do a DIY 'at-home' RT-PCR test of covid-19, what would I need and how would I do it? Mostly just curious
07:40 < kanzure> welcome back
07:40 < abetusk> hey
07:41 < abetusk> Also, any opinions on: https://easycoronatest.com/product/covid-19-rapid-test-kit/
07:42 < yashgaroth> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/rt-pcr-panel-for-detection-instructions.pdf
07:45 < yashgaroth> considering that site's parent company is simultaneously hawking "Stem cell therapy for autism" and traditional chinese medicine...probably rock solid tests
07:48 < yashgaroth> (the CDC link is their handbook for running the qRT-PCR test abetusk)
07:49 < abetusk> yashgaroth, thanks, yeah, I see. But where's the 'magic'? This is just the PCR...where do you get the probes (is that the word for it?) that will actually amplify the COVID-19 pattern you're looking for in the sample?
07:49 < fenn> TMA i'm sorry to have to correct you but there is something approximating a conservation of money. the value of stocks goes down because people are trying to sell them, and if nobody is buying at that price they lower the sale price, and so on, until eventually someone buys the stock at that price. when the stock is sold, they get money. stock prices go up in the same way. the total number of
07:49 < fenn> stocks is conserved (in the short term) so when a stock goes down and then back up, the total amount of dollars in and out of the stock market is the same
07:50 < fenn> long term trends up and down reflect real changes in the total amount of wealth, that is to say, goods and services
07:51 < yashgaroth> yeah they just say "primer/probe sets", but eg IDT sells them https://www.idtdna.com/pages/landing/coronavirus-research-reagents or someone may be selling updated primers/probes based on this guy's research https://tomeraltman.net/2020/03/03/technical-problems-COVID-primers.html
07:53 < yashgaroth> abetusk the primers are what amplify the virus's genome, the probe is what sticks to that amplified material and is detected by the instrument...though I'm grossly oversimplifying
07:54 < abetusk> yashgaroth, thanks. Right, so those links are for the actual primers. So presumably an individual could order those primers, run PCR on a sample and get a kind of home brew test
07:55 < yashgaroth> yes, if you have the rest of the equipment and reagents listed in that handbook (or a reasonable approximation)
07:58 < abetusk> and, just for my personal edification, if I were to try and "make my own test", I could order primers custom made by using snippets from the genome found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/NC_045512.2 ?
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07:59 < TMA> fenn: sure, those are "money conserving transactions" you are mentioning. but the "gain/loss" that is generated by the price change for all owners of the shares (not just those involved in the transaction) is not subject to the conservation of money
08:01 < fenn> neither the value of dollars nor stocks nor any specific good is invariant
08:03 < fenn> since US dollars become more valuable in a crisis (many people have faith in the continued future value of a dollar) it's possible that the relative value of stocks simply didn't keep pace
08:04 < yashgaroth> abetusk yes but I would highly recommend sticking with the CDC's primers or those in that linked post by tomer altman, since a lot of design goes in...and because multiple companies are already manufacturing those primers so they'll have a stock vs. having to synthesize it for you
08:04 < abetusk> sure, just curious
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08:46 < adlai> fenn: if i short-sell a stock, no money has been freed up; i now have in my account something that behaves like cash within the context of that one stock's market, but it has to be spent on buying back the stock
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09:02 < lsneff> If anyone here wants to quickly get rich, there's a massive opportunity for making a video calling app specifically for classrooms
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09:20 < juri_> lsneff: working hard on one.
09:23 < abetusk> yashgaroth, my apologies for my ignorance but what does the rt PCR machine look like? Is there a detector somewhere? How does one detect the 'real-time' aspect of it and are there DIY/open hardware options?
09:25 < yashgaroth> check out the openqPCR machine, people usually refer to it as quantitative PCR these days and not real-time since the RT abbreviation went to reverse transcriptase and people felt stupid saying RT-RT PCR
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09:26 < yashgaroth> but yeah it's basically just a PCR machine that shoots light into the sample and checks how much of the probe fluorophore gets released at a given time
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09:30 < yashgaroth> abetusk so as the reaction proceeds you get a rough idea of how much amplicon there is by how fluorescent it gets, which correlates with how much virus (or whatever) was in the sample initially
09:37 < abetusk> but the pcr machine itself has a sensor on it?
09:38 < abetusk> ah, sorry, didn't see your responses above
09:39 < abetusk> openqpcr looks like it's not open hardware?
09:41 < jrayhawk> fltrz: yes, amino acids are directly soluable in plasma and transported as such. There's complex filtering that goes on at endothelial barriers, such as at the interfaces to privileged circulation or vascular walls, and at cytoplasmic membranes.
09:48 < fltrz> jrayhawk, thanks
09:49 < fltrz> jrayhawk, would it in theory be possible to measure amino acid concentrations in the blood like we can measure oxyhaemoglobin with LED spectral measurements?
09:49 < fltrz> jrayhawk, are the amino acids simply dissolved or do they form complexes similar to oxy haemoglobin?
09:50 < jrayhawk> Spectral analysis is beyond my knowledge.
09:52 < fltrz> jrayhawk, I mean simple optical spectra, like how oxygen saturation meters work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_oximetry#Function
10:03 < yashgaroth> abetusk yeah that's as close as you're gonna get to open hardware tho
10:07 < abetusk> *for now
10:07 < yashgaroth> sure
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12:34 < nmz787> abetusk: they did release plans and code at one point, it was not terribly well advertised/easy to find
12:36 < nmz787> TMA: I guess you're british/EU? since your stock market numbers otherwise have wayyyy too many insignificant decimal place digits
12:38 < abetusk> nmz787, I saw the code but I didn't see any plans...though there is a KiCAD library that they have. Releasing plans does not an open hardware project make (just as releasing source doesn't make it 'open source')...making sure documents are under a free/libre license does
12:43 < nmz787> abetusk: eh, there's no hard and fast definition though... I'm pretty sure they released enough for a reasonably smart person to reproduce the original version
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12:56 < TMA> nmz787: aye, I have messed up , and . in writing $1 lakh
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15:26 < maaku> fenn: there is no money backing a stock's value. it's purely an assumption that when you want to sell, someone will be there to buy at the currently quoted price
15:27 < maaku> in current conditions, that's no longer true. that missing money never existed
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16:34 < lsneff> Should've bought some spy calls last week
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16:36 < lsneff> *puts
16:36 < lsneff> Literally the opposite from what I wrote lmao
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17:01 < maaku> hindsight is a bitch
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19:08 < fenn> when you bought the stock in the first place, you gave dollars to someone in exchange. those dollars are still circulating
19:08 < fenn> only when the fed (?) destroys dollars, or cash is destroyed, do they cease to exist
19:15 < fenn> my original question "where did that money go" was about the destination of the dollars that had been exchanged for stocks, not the perceived value of the stocks
19:16 < fenn> if overnight a large portion of savvy investors decided to become currency speculators, one would expect there to be a large pot of liquid capital available in the form of dollars
19:17 < fenn> so it doesn't make sense that suddenly literally everyone is a tightwad and doesn't want to spend money on vaccine research etc
19:17 < fenn> if they got out of the stock market early, now they're richer. if they got out late, now they're poorer
19:18 < fenn> it'll take a while for number of dollars on the price tags to go down
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19:30 < fenn> http://covidbase.com a categorized list of coronavirus related projects
19:45 < fenn> 3d printed venturi valve for oxygen masks in northern italy. "Before designing the 3D model, they called the company which produces the valves to ask for the 3d file. The company refused to give it to them because of patent protection. They decided to move on and modeled the piece measuring the one they had in their hands. Then they started 3d printing."
19:47 < fenn> apparently it's legal for a hospital to violate patent and copyright in an emergency
19:49 < fenn> there's a google doc where people are listing themselves as having 3D printing capacity to help out with hospitals... currently at 1284 names and rising
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19:58 < fenn> .title https://forms.gle/Rj1DsGBaac4MQZ8GA
19:58 < saxo> 3D Printer & Talent Public Crowdsourcing for COVID-19
20:01 < fenn> heh "use the CT scanner"
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 17 00:00:24 2020