--- Log opened Thu Mar 19 00:00:27 2020 00:43 < abetusk> I don't understand why some bio-hackers or even grad students don't just start testing themselves and all the people they know 00:53 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:57 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:04 < jrayhawk> Grad students are poor and reagents are not free. 01:26 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owvzcwwwddmortjy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:32 -!- ptrcmd [~ptrcmd@unaffiliated/petercommand] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:42 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:02 < fenn> hey remember like 10 years ago when i was promoting the concept of free Taq-plasmid e. coli for everyone 03:02 < fenn> that would be nice right about now 03:05 < fenn> mung bean nuclease can degrade DNA into single nucleotides 03:06 < fenn> i dunno what to do about primers 03:14 < fenn> it would be good to work on a kitchen-able synthesis of hydroxychloroquine 03:17 < nmz787> well there's that freegenes project 03:17 < nmz787> but that's more just a plasmid library, I think, for free (supposedly) 03:18 < fenn> sure, it's not that hard to transform cells 03:18 < fenn> a plasmid with clever restriction sites to generate primers could be useful for mass producing tests 03:21 < fenn> "we have completed synthesis of all syn3.0 genes" wow, who cares 03:22 < fenn> that's the M. laboratorium synthetic life project 03:23 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34 < fenn> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hydroxychloroquine_synthesis.svg 03:39 < fenn> nmz787: harvard just shut down all their labs and are donating all consumables (gloves, masks, etc) to local hospitals, so starting them up again may not be easy 03:40 < fenn> i don't see why it would take a long time to boil a bunch of test tubes 03:41 < fenn> generally, medical establishments seem to be doing incredibly stupid and incomprehensible things during this initial time period 03:42 < fenn> like throwing away their masks and face shields, then having administrators hand-make new ones out of plastic sheeting, instead of just autoclaving the old ones 03:42 < fenn> and then worrying about running out of masks in a couple weeks 03:43 < fenn> just... don't throw them away? 03:43 < fenn> duh? 03:43 < fenn> what am i missing here? 03:44 < fenn> it must be some kind of legal requirement, that's the only way anyone would be so dumb 03:51 < TMA> do not underestimate the creative stupidity 03:59 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:03 < fltrz> what happens when ribosomes try to translate RNA into a protein, when there is a shortage of an amino acid? does it skip the required amino acid but produce a continuous peptide bonded protein missing specific amino acids? or does it stop and release the partial protein? if the latter, it seems that 1 RNA sequence can code for many different protein sequences depending on what amino acid shortage,... perhaps incomplete starts due to shortage bind to 04:03 < fltrz> relevant binding sites in the cell? 04:04 < fltrz> prompting a cell's response to that amino acid shortage? 04:05 < nmz787> fenn: the comments I posted earlier today about the testing and Roche 8500 came from a Harvard guy, actually 04:05 < fltrz> it seems like this should be statistically discernible: the start of protein sequences having higher binding affinities with promoter regions than random sequences mid protein 04:05 < nmz787> he was saying they're trying to get the CLIA certification red-tape lifted 04:05 < nmz787> so they can use their academic labs 04:06 < fenn> fltrz: it stops and waits until the amino acid eventually randomly wanders in. the incomplete chain can fall off partway 04:06 < nmz787> I heard virus load can accumulate in the masks 04:06 < nmz787> and if they're plastic, likely that autoclaving will destroy them 04:06 < fltrz> fenn, thanks, so in theory the incomplete chain can bind say promoter regions? 04:07 < fenn> sure 04:07 < fenn> dunno what you'd do about it though 04:07 < fltrz> fenn, would it be possible that genomes with RNA splicing etc code for alternative versions of proteins: higher or lower in specific amino acid concentrations? 04:08 < fltrz> i.e. "make do with what we have" 04:08 < fenn> .title https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0018585 04:08 < saxo> Evaluation of Microwave Steam Bags for the Decontamination of Filtering Facepiece Respirators 04:09 < fenn> tl;dr microwaving in a nylon bag with water sprayed on, will kill bacteriophage virus simulant and does not affect mask filtration very much 04:09 < fltrz> nmz787, yes filters contain high amounts of particles, viral, bacterial, nuclear... one way to measure say radon concentrations in air, is to have a fan suck air through a filter at a known airflow rate, then put the filter in an MCA multichannel analyzer 04:10 < nmz787> fltrz: I think the point was the masks get more and more dangerous 04:10 < fenn> you'd rather autoclave to make sure you kill antibiotic resistant bacteria, but i don't know how much the higher autoclave temperature affects the mask material. there's also ethylene oxide gas sterilization if autoclave doesn't work, and then there's radiation, etc 04:10 < nmz787> or they get less effective at flowing air 04:10 < fenn> no they don't clog with dust 04:11 < fltrz> nmz787, correct, they are more dangerous 04:11 < fenn> it's not a drywall sanding construction site 04:11 < nmz787> well virus isn't dust, it's much smaller 04:11 < nmz787> heh, I was playing with microwaving matches and charred wood the other day 04:11 < nmz787> some crazy plasma balls were produced 04:11 < fltrz> I think oil droplets may clog the filters eventually (pumps, motors, ...) 04:12 < nmz787> (did it in an upside down beaker) 04:12 < fltrz> still pissed I couldn't get hold of UV-C LEDs even though I saw it coming a month and a half ago... 04:13 < fltrz> seems most of those manufacturers and distributors are less interested in selling actual components, and more interested in what you want to do with them... 04:14 < fenn> did you tell them? 04:14 < fltrz> of course 04:14 < fenn> and they wanted no part in saving the world? 04:14 < fltrz> wearable battery powered PPE 04:15 < fenn> i'd expect a large fraction of uses for UV-C LEDs to be related to disinfection 04:15 < fltrz> fenn, I have no clue, they just drop silent, or in another case the specific LED (among other UV-C LEDs) that had stock, suddenly "out of stock, no longer manufactured" 04:15 < fltrz> fenn, correct 04:16 < nmz787> this is nice https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/dolphins-venice-canals-coronavirus-lockdown-italy-a4390686.html 04:16 < fltrz> they didn't drop silent immediately, there were multiple rounds of communication, pricing, properties, ... then they give an informal quote, great, so then I ask for a formal quote and ... silence 04:17 < nmz787> I'd rather see dolphins than boats and guys steering them who look like they're wearing prisoner clothes 04:17 < fenn> i have had this problem with many "business to business" products. the usual thing that works is to figure out exactly what they want to hear and then make up a bullshit story that, while not true, will get you the goods 04:17 < nmz787> fltrz: you should contact them again 04:17 < fenn> it helps to have a believable sounding "company name" even if that company doesn't actually exist 04:17 < nmz787> and say "get me those samples ASAP" 04:18 * nmz787 sleeps 04:20 < fltrz> what I think happened, was that I made some very convincing arguments of the UV-C LEDs in compared with filtration, in the context of *wearable* PPE, that it almost sounded like a sales pitch towards governments, and I presume they have taken half my arguments and negotiating sales to governments with it... which I don't mind at all, just at least sell me some too 06:35 -!- agile_prg [~nyb@2601:182:c780:23e0:832:3e3a:c489:e27a] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:40 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.145] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:42 < agile_prg> https://github.com/jcl5m1/ventilator 07:12 < archels_> .title https://imgur.com/gallery/ALZ32Ev 07:12 < saxo> China started installing holographic buttons to combat current and future disease spreading - GIF on Imgur 07:13 < agile_prg> wow thats cool~ 07:14 < fenn> well now we know why our dystopian cyberpunk future has holograms everywhere 07:15 < fenn> i thought it was gonna be like "verified not a zombie" button to pin on your lapel 07:15 < fenn> counterfeit proof, cuz holograms 07:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:34 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:3105:3e60:51ab:b6a3] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:44 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:18 < fltrz> pff those holographic buttons, same could be achieved with 1) voice activation, 2) cell phone WiFi 3) ... 08:19 < lsneff> Yeah, it'd be nice if smart phones could act as universal remotes for things 08:19 < lsneff> Tap your phone on the elevator, it'd load a simple website that let's you select a floor 08:19 < fltrz> cell phone cryptographic link to PoS terminals for pin codes 08:20 < fltrz> yeah QR code links to elevator app 08:20 < fltrz> slap a sticker and a simple wireless chip in the elevator 08:34 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:3105:3e60:51ab:b6a3] has quit [] 08:34 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:52 < fenn> "So have there been free-floating mitochondria in the blood all along, and we're just finally noticing them?" https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/02/03/free-floating-mitochondria 08:53 < fenn> fltrz: no more cellphone requiring things please 08:53 < fenn> i'd like to stick my thumb out to summon a tesla 08:54 < fenn> hey, car, get over here! 08:55 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:22 -!- mrdata_ [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:25 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:36 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:37 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:38 < fenn> https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/minimuscles-let-amputees-control-robot-hand-their-minds 09:41 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:44 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:45 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:45 < fenn> https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/12/eyeing-organs-human-transplants-companies-unveil-most-extensively-gene-edited-pigs-yet 09:46 < fenn> Qihan Bio 09:47 < fenn> "expects to be testing pig organs in humans within 5 years" 09:49 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:49 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:52 -!- mrdata_ is now known as mrdata 10:04 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/ProfTomEllis/status/1208049351723016192 10:04 < saxo> @KarasLab And then QiHan Bio (Luhan Yang, @geochurch et al.) have engineered the pig genome extensively for xenotransplantation / https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.17.876862v1 / 2/2 (@ProfTomEllis, in reply to tw:1208049074991247366) 10:14 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:20 < fltrz> how many people will continue opting for organ transplants when the immune repressors are dangerous in situations like coronavirus? seems like the future of organ transplants is necessarily from patient cells flashed to stem cells? 10:21 < fenn> maybe they can sufficiently engineer the pigs so that immune suppressants are not needed 10:22 < fltrz> fenn, I still think that would require patient stem cells, as transplants from humans to humans requires immune suppression right? 10:23 < fenn> not necessarily. the pig could be individually tailored to match the patient 10:23 < fenn> i forget how many histocompatibility factors there are 10:24 < fltrz> seems like easier to path to figure out how to grown proper organoids from patient stem cells, then grow them either in vitro, or in pigs (pigs take immunosuppresors while growing organ) 10:24 < fenn> sure if you can get away with an organoid 10:25 < fenn> that won't cut it for lungs, hearts, intestines, eyeballs, and so on 10:25 < fenn> organoids don't magically and spontaneously turn into organs 10:26 < fltrz> certainly true, so we need to learn how to develop that 10:26 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:31 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:39 < lsneff> Seems like printing organs is just around the corner 10:39 < fenn> that's what i said 10 years ago 10:44 < juri_> working hard on it. 10:55 < lsneff> It may be that they need to be printed in null-g. 11:06 < fenn> that would be just too perfect 11:13 < fenn> just had a video show-and-tell session with 16 friends' kids 11:13 < fltrz> I don't think the issue is printing it, but understanding / modeling the gene regulatory networks, and then modeling thousands or millions of such cells, and applied external gradients 11:38 < fenn> pretty sure i just saw a pair of fighter jets slowly fly over the san francisco bay 11:38 < fenn> that doesn't normally happen 11:40 -!- fltrz [~fltrz@109.236.129.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:40 -!- fltrz [~fltrz@109.236.129.249] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:51 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:26 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmtuykyihdgxrasd] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:12 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:32 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:50 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:06 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:09 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:39 < lsneff> There should be a way to offload computation on a local device to a server seamlessly. Like some open-source protocol running stuff elsewhere. 14:40 < fenn> that exists but you have to do some work beforehand, and i forget what it's called 14:40 < lsneff> Like, you could register multiple servers with your device and when an application needed to do some hardcore rendering or needed more cpu cores, it could just offload automatically in the background. 14:40 < lsneff> Like for smartphones and tablets too 14:41 < fenn> yeah, well... 14:42 < fenn> everything's terrible 14:42 < fenn> but especially phones 14:43 < fenn> for one thing there's that whole ARM vs intel architecture difference 14:43 < lsneff> Maybe this will happen when wasm get's more prevalent. 14:43 < lsneff> *gets 14:44 < fenn> this sounds suspiciously like java bytecode 14:44 < lsneff> I have a lot of experience with wasm 14:44 < lsneff> (I wrote a lot of wasmer's runtime) 14:45 < lsneff> And it's similar in a lot of ways, but it prioritises security and compartmentalization. 14:45 < lsneff> So, a single wasm module (analogous to a binary executable or library) is pretty much self-contained. 14:46 < lsneff> It's a very clean system too, it feels elegant to my aesthetic tastes 14:47 < lsneff> That'll be the future, when every computing system can interop and offload computations between themselves. 14:48 < fenn> imagine how much bloat we'll be able to ram down users' throats when they can spool up an entire datacenter on demand 14:49 < lsneff> I can't wait 14:50 * fenn looks for the off ramp 14:50 < lsneff> mfw operating systems are run on serverless servers 14:52 < lsneff> It'd increase battery life a bunch on phones and tablets 14:56 < lsneff> Would be great if things like vr headsets could just spool up nearby servers too. 15:06 < fenn> vr is especially sensitive to latency. i just pinged my gateway and it took anywhere from 2-18ms averaging about 5ms 15:07 < fenn> at 60fps (low for VR) that'd be a third of a frame of pure latency, nevermind the overhead from packaging up the frame data and sending it over the network 15:08 < fenn> you have to cram the actual rendering process into the remainder 15:10 < fenn> if you just show the frame whenever you get it, you'll have judder, which is even worse than a constant delay, so you end up having to settle on a latency of much higher than the average, just to smooth out the glitches 15:11 < fenn> maybe something could be done with neural nets to adjust the rendered frame to the most recent millisecond sensor data 15:11 < lsneff> Yeah, I'm getting more like 15 ms of latency 15:11 < fenn> on an asic probably 15:11 < lsneff> Maybe devices could connect with wifi direct? 15:12 < fenn> that is direct 15:12 < fenn> i'm pinging my AP 15:12 < lsneff> Right 15:12 < lsneff> Fair 15:13 < fenn> radio noise won't just disappear because you're the only devices on the channel 15:13 < lsneff> Well, hopefully that improves over time. 15:13 < fenn> i think it will tend to get worse, because there will be more and more wifi-enabled crap chirping and cheeping 15:14 < fenn> the toaster has to check for updates for the 100th time today 15:15 < fenn> the TV remote has woken up from power saving mode and attempted to establish a pair with the TV 15:15 < lsneff> I think some of the newer wifi protocols can handle a bunch of devices at the same time 15:15 < lsneff> Instead of switching between each one 15:15 < fenn> your cat's picture frame is exfiltrating data to the CIA 15:15 < fenn> (or CCP more likely) 15:16 < lsneff> Maybe devices should just establish laser links between themselves :P 15:16 < fenn> there's just precious little bandwidth reserved for the average joe 15:17 < fenn> unlicensed spectrum 15:17 < fenn> yes laser is a good solution 15:17 < fenn> you can just bounce light off any surface without focusing it 15:18 < lsneff> There is that lifi protocol 15:18 < lsneff> Uses led lightbulbs I tink 15:18 < lsneff> *think 15:45 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:27 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:30 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:58 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:02 -!- hehelleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:13 -!- helleshin [~talinck@98.29.27.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:08 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:21 < kanzure> "Transplantation of ACE2 mesenchymal stem cells" http://www.aginganddisease.org/article/0000/2152-5250/ad-0-0-216.shtml 19:21 < kanzure> isn't this overkill? 19:43 < mrdata> ACE2 is not the only way SARS-CoV-2 enters cells 19:44 < mrdata> CD147 is another 19:44 < mrdata> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.14.988345v1 19:52 < kanzure> .title 19:52 < saxo> SARS-CoV-2 invades host cells via a novel route: CD147-spike protein | bioRxiv 19:59 < kanzure> https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2020/03/18/viewpoint-brexit-could-jump-start-uk-gmo-crispr-research-once-stifled-by-dead-hand-of-eu-regulation/ 20:05 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmtuykyihdgxrasd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:45 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:25 -!- agile_prg [~nyb@2601:182:c780:23e0:832:3e3a:c489:e27a] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06 < maaku> fenn: was it the blue angels coming to roost? 23:06 < maaku> lsneff: look up the Amoeba operating system sometime 23:06 < maaku> the 80's was great for this sort of distributed-system research 23:57 < abetusk> https://mailchi.mp/fountainhopper/foho-102student-claims-to-run-bootleg-covid-19-testing-lab-50-stanford-affiliates-allegedly-tested-more-news-you-can-use --- Log closed Fri Mar 20 00:00:28 2020