--- Log opened Mon Apr 13 00:00:50 2020 00:12 < nmz787> lsneff: I kind of like the depersonalization part of it 00:12 < nmz787> what if I have a face that I'm really uncomfortable having people see? 00:14 < nmz787> on top of that, the whole feminism of "my face is up here" pushes things up even further. Does this reduce the chance that person will feel you're looking at the wrong place? 00:15 < nmz787> plus, people walking around looking like cowboy trainrobbers from an old western movie is just cool 00:16 < nmz787> I guess this is as close to cosplay I like to get 00:16 < nmz787> I enjoyed wearing a bunny suit when I took the cleanroom fab class back in my B.S. 00:16 < nmz787> I even have at least one selfie there too 00:20 < nmz787> also, whoo, got ethernet and wifi in garage now! 00:42 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:45 < fenn> this is our last chance to transition to a ninja economy 01:40 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:44 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:12 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:19 -!- HumanGeek [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:21 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:43 < nsh> +1 03:24 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:27 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:59 < lsneff> I dunno, I feel like it seems very Victorian to me. Like it makes showing skin taboo. 05:27 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45 < fenn> just last week it was an unforgivable sin to wear a mask in public 05:46 < kanzure> why do you wear a mask? were you burned by acid, or something like that? 05:47 < fenn> i'll only be satisfied when we're all trundling around in our armored mechas, stomping on poodles and patrol cars 05:47 < kanzure> they're terribly comfortable. i think everyone will be wearing them in the future. 05:47 < fenn> plate steel is the new black 05:50 < kanzure> let's see.. where were we? oh yes. in the pit of despair. 05:59 < nsh> -- 05:59 < nsh> Out of the night that covers me, 05:59 < nsh> Black as the pit from pole to pole, 05:59 < nsh> I thank whatever gods may be 05:59 < nsh> For my unconquerable soul. 05:59 < nsh> In the fell clutch of circumstance 05:59 < nsh> I have not winced nor cried aloud. 05:59 < nsh> Under the bludgeonings of chance 05:59 < nsh> My head is bloody, but unbowed. 05:59 < nsh> Beyond this place of wrath and tears 05:59 < nsh> Looms but the Horror of the shade, 05:59 < nsh> And yet the menace of the years 05:59 < nsh> Finds and shall find me unafraid. 05:59 < nsh> It matters not how strait the gate, 05:59 < nsh> How charged with punishments the scroll, 05:59 < nsh> I am the master of my fate, 06:00 < nsh> I am the captain of my soul. 06:00 < nsh> -- https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/51642/invictus 06:09 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:26 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:31 < archels> how much should I charge someone to do their graduate coursework for them? 06:32 < archels> I think it'll be about 10 hours total, mostly writing code for solving differential equations 06:35 < archels> well, maybe more like 8... something like €150/200? 06:41 < adlai> archels, the rational answer depends on the reason for them not doing their own coursework 06:41 < adlai> if they're working a job that doesn't leave them time for coursework, feel free to bargain 06:42 < adlai> the 'moral' answer is to anchor the bargaining from your plausible minimum wage 06:42 < fenn> $0 and a hefty hush fee for not revealing their cheating to the authorities 06:42 < adlai> the academically honest answer is as much as you think they can pay. 06:44 < fenn> this investment will pay dividends as you can claim more hush money later when they use their bogus PhD to get a high paying job 06:44 < adlai> if you want a different anchor point for bargaining, check what the rates are for tutoring the undergraduate mathematics courses that cover the necessary knowledge, and anchor a bit higher than that, because you are writing code, not just pure mathematics 06:45 < adlai> don't charge hush money, just tell them that there isn't enough bitcoin in the world to stop you from blackmailing them if they piss you off 06:45 -!- urkk_ [~urkk@176.129.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:46 < fenn> an entry level programmer in san francisco bay area gets $70k/yr = $35/hr and you should charge much more than this because you're presumably actually working during the hours you charge for 06:46 -!- urkk [~urkk@40.140.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:47 < adlai> definitely price yourself closer to programmer than tutor if the bulk of your work is programming... although some tutors earn better than some programmers, so ymmv 06:47 < fenn> no it's not "somewhere between a tutor and a programmer" 06:48 < fenn> it's programmer PLUS mathematician 06:48 < adlai> the advantage of pricing yourself as a tutor is that they have a plausible excuse if someone asks why they are paying you. 06:49 < fenn> that's stupid 06:49 < fenn> it's for weed, obviously 06:50 < adlai> lol 06:50 < adlai> the strong disadvantage of anchoring too high is that a grad student might just not bargain and do the damn work themselves 06:50 < fenn> the main factor limiting your rate is what the competition charges 06:50 < adlai> this is why whether they have a job is the most relevant factor. 06:52 < fenn> if they were smart they would just farm it out as a programming task, not a "help me cheat on my homework" task 06:53 < fenn> "anchor from minimum wage" who comes up with this shit 06:53 < fenn> stop being poor! 06:56 < adlai> good luck teaching farmable programmers how to solve differential equations 06:56 < fenn> exactly, this is why it's programmer plus mathematician wages, or more 06:56 < adlai> ... without them seeking you out as a mathematics teacher, ahead of time 06:57 < adlai> agreed; i just think that it's a better strategy to underbid in this case, especially if archels has to ask for pricing advice here 06:57 < fenn> please explain why it's better to underbid than to overbid 06:58 < adlai> "the strong disadvantage of anchoring too high is that a grad student might just not bargain and do the damn work themselves" 06:58 < adlai> one of your competitors is the customer 06:58 < fenn> if you underbid you have no second chance to negotiate 06:58 < fenn> you guarantee you will get a bad deal 06:59 < fenn> if you overbid, there's some chance they will call it off, some other chance they'll accept it right away (because they have no idea what you should be charging either), and some chance they will negotiate you down 07:00 < adlai> .wik iterated prisoner's dilemma 07:00 < saxo> "The prisoner's dilemma is a standard example of a game analyzed in game theory that shows why two completely rational individuals might not cooperate, even if it appears that it is in their best interests to do so." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iterated_prisoner%27s_dilemma 07:00 < fenn> i think negotiation and game theory should be a part of computer science and math curricula, just to keep smart kids from undervaluing themselves 07:00 < fenn> prisoner's dilemma has nothing to do with this particular situation 07:01 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnetwgpaghldnfua] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:01 < adlai> no, but you are describing a tactic appropriate for a non-iterated negotiation, and i am assuming that there is the possibility of future work 07:02 < fenn> once they accept a low-ball offer they're going to anchor on that for future negotiations 07:02 < fenn> so now you've really backed yourself into a corner 07:02 < fenn> if however you highball the first time, and they're really desperate, you can lowball the second time and they'll be super grateful instead of pissed 07:02 < fenn> er, not lowball, just reduce the price from the first round 07:11 < fenn> also let it be known that hourly wages are a poor incentive structure for mental tasks 07:18 * adlai note to self, cc to public: default title for dissertation "Game Theory Considered Harmful", default department for surprise submission - sadly, econ 07:19 < adlai> spoiler alert: the tl;dr is that stupid people fare better in free markets, except for specific discontinuities along the intelligence continuum, although identifying the contours of these discontinuities is challenging since they shift over time 07:20 < fenn> i won't take your word for it 07:21 < adlai> don't take my word! if you ever hear of this nonexistent dissertation again, remind me to switch record because this one is broken 07:45 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.12] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:13 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:31 -!- urkk_ [~urkk@176.129.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:32 -!- urkk [~urkk@207.131.239.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:32 -!- aeiousomething [~aeiousome@unaffiliated/aeiousomething] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:46 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50 < fltrz> is numerai a trustworthy platform? I see lots of talk of easy decentralized prediction market, ... but I don't see how those making models and uploading predictions can verify their work is recognized, also the extra criteria "originality" "consistency" etc seem to be unverifiable: how does the data scientist prevent numerai exploiting their predictions after upload and simply pretending the work didn't qualify? 08:52 < fltrz> perhaps a different question is: is there a recommended uniform but decentralized marketplace that sees lots of use and where one can verify their trades aren't fronted etc? 08:56 < fltrz> I envision something like a marketplace using *rounds* where one can submit hashed bids/offers (with a locked stake) so that at the end of the round people reveal their salts and compatible bids/offers go through while incompatible ones don't and non-revealed salts also result in loss of the stake, while compatible trades result in return of the stake. 09:00 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:00 < fltrz> kanzure? 09:40 < kanzure> for prediction markets i would go ask paul sztorc (truthcoin) and read his blog posts 09:40 < kanzure> https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-vaults-developer-bryan-bishop-releases-prototype-for-secure-on-chain-storage 10:43 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:14 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jqojfobjoqwraaxl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:33 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/BobMcElrath/status/1249766007545233409 12:33 < saxo> Anyone know of an append-only database where entries in the database state can be proven? (a la a hash-chain Merkle root of database stae) No not bitcoin. I'm talking about bringing hash chains to SQL. (@BobMcElrath) 12:33 < kanzure> speaking of databases... https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/9197 13:28 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=3fac539a Michael Folkson: Add Jeremy at Stanford 2017 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/blockchain-protocol-analysis-security-engineering/2017/2017-01-26-jeremy-rubin-covenants/ 13:28 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=9a3915ed Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #94 from michaelfolkson/add-jeremy-stanford >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 13:28 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=dc4ea1d8 Bryan Bishop: Merge remote-tracking branch 'github/master' >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 13:34 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jqojfobjoqwraaxl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 13:52 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drmxmlmcfoaemkzz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:40 -!- saurik [saurik@carrier.saurik.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47 -!- saurik [saurik@carrier.saurik.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:49 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:49 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:50 -!- CRM114 is now known as Urchin 14:51 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@88.125.182.66] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:46 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:22 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@88.125.182.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:00 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:28 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:33 -!- mauz555 [~mauz555@2a01:e0a:56d:9090:ad0e:52f7:2635:5829] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:01 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hnetwgpaghldnfua] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:06 -!- heath [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:07 -!- heath [~heath@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:17 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:44 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-drmxmlmcfoaemkzz] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:11 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wexiglobztbwuszi] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:27 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: ars longa vita brevis] 20:34 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:57 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@172.58.19.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20 -!- jaykubg [~jacob@2601:646:8300:8db:d34:35a5:fdf5:bd18] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:20 < jaykubg> @Search calculus single and multivariable 21:20 -!- jaykubg [~jacob@2601:646:8300:8db:d34:35a5:fdf5:bd18] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31 -!- docl_ [~docl@159.203.115.16] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:32 -!- diginet_ [~diginet@107.170.146.29] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:35 -!- drolmer_ [~drolmer@unaffiliated/drolmer] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:35 -!- Jenda` [~jenda@coralmyn.hrach.eu] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:35 -!- nefercheprure [tma@twin.jikos.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:37 -!- bbrittain_ [~bbrittain@ec2-34-242-76-124.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:39 -!- acertain- [~acertain@unaffiliated/fread2281] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:40 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Jenda`_, drolmer, diginet, TMA, docl, bbrittain, acertain 21:40 -!- diginet_ is now known as diginet 23:59 -!- nefercheprure is now known as TMA --- Log closed Tue Apr 14 00:00:51 2020