--- Log opened Sat Jul 11 00:00:15 2020
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09:38 < lsneff> Started tracking my sleep recently. Trying to quantify my biological health as best I can without regular blood testing, which isn't available to me.
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11:33 < nmz787> kanzure: yeah I saw your email about that issue, who wants to do it?
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13:32 < nmz787> oh, I see John replied that he's too busy now to fill out the form... I take it you are too... I can probably do it in the next few days... getting taxes done is my current goal
13:34 < fenn> hoijui: i slogged through your legalese DIN standards and although i'm not really sure exactly what goal you're trying to accomplish here, i'd like to recommend that part of the standard is labeling the physical hardware with a pointer to its source code, such that the user of the physical hardware is guaranteed to know where to get its build/use specifications
13:36 < fenn> also this web app word processing stuff is terrible
13:41 < fenn> i really don't understand what DIN 3105-2 is trying to accomplish
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13:44 < fenn> QR codes are good. URL shorteners are bad
13:45 < fenn> a simple name and version number should be good enough in practice
13:46 < fenn> basically, i don't give a shit about "Certification", but i really do care about getting the specs for the piece of hardware
13:48 < fenn> i'm concerned that these dense legal requirements will end up excluding individuals from the entire process
13:49 < fenn> typically, people from my culture would prefer to use a public set of cryptographic attestations anyone can write to, rather than an official certifying body
13:52 < fenn> this document seems more concerned with being "officially official" and ticking boxes, rather than being an actually useful set of data that is difficult to game
13:53 < fenn> it should at least explain the problem it's trying to solve. are there roving bands of capitalist pigdogs doing "openwashing" with the OSH gear logo? or is there some fear of that happening in the future?
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14:07 < fenn> matthias wandel (woodgears.ca) bandsaw plans are not "open" in any sense that means anything
14:07 < fenn> (first entry on oho.wiki)
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16:33 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=9d501bb4 Michael Folkson: Add Andrew Chow developer update >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/andrew-chow/2020-07-10-what-am-i-working-on/
16:33 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=5de66ec8 Michael Folkson: Merge pull request #128 from michaelfolkson/add-dev-updates-july-2020 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/
16:33 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=6949f7be Michael Folkson: Add Chicago Socratic >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/chicago-bitdevs/2020-07-08-socratic-seminar/
16:33 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=0725b563 Bryan Bishop: Merge pull request #129 from michaelfolkson/add-chicago-july-socratic >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/
16:41 < kanzure> "Reversal of epigenetic aging and immunosenescent trends in humans" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.13028
16:50  * L29Ah plans to do such a regime on himself, replacing HGH with GHRP
16:52 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/pdp7/status/1281908686324195330
16:52 < saxo> The options to run Linux on open source hardware has declined and, aside from soft-cores on FPGA boards, I believe only @beagleboardorg and @Olimex are still producing Linux-capable OSHW boards. @ghalfacree writes on @Hacksterio about Olimex's new project https://www.hackster.io/news/olimex-s-tukhla-built-around-the-i-mx8quadmax-targets-open-hardware-linux-power-users-15771877ea17 (@pdp7)
16:55 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/tylerwinklevoss/status/1281969599060283399
16:55 < saxo> If you’re starting a hedge fund, consider the university wrapper. Tax free returns! Great business model. https://twitter.com/winklevoss/status/1281966339712851968 (@tylerwinklevoss)
16:56 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/opentrons/status/1281243443310866432
16:56 < saxo> So excited to see this open-source vacuum manifold to aid COVID-19 RNA extraction from @openbioeconomy! #covid19 #coronavirus #testing #rna https://hubs.ly/H0sjj7s0 (@opentrons)
17:02 < kanzure> music.. stuff. https://aws.amazon.com/deepcomposer/
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17:47 < lsneff> kanzure: that aging reversal paper is very interesting.
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20:36 < lsneff> There is no place with a more entrenched death cult than the United States
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23:46 < hoijui> fenn, thanks for that suggestion... very reasonable! I will forward it (I am not involved muhc in hte forumaltions.. just doign the IT part of it)
23:47  * fenn salutes
23:48 < hoijui> fenn, you have to understand, that until this point, the DIN-3105 was developed by a set of people fro mdifferent open hardware groups (like OSHWA), together with the DIN
23:49 < hoijui> 3105-1 is kind of a very basic set of rules, that will not change (much)
23:49 < hoijui> 3105-2, from now on, will be developped in the open
23:49 < hoijui> we see it as a loophole, that now can be exploited
23:50 < hoijui> so far, it is not of too much use, probably
23:50 < fenn> what's the goal of having a DIN official standard?
23:51 < hoijui> the certification stuff ... I did not read the text in detail, but I am conversing a lot with martin haeuer, which is the main brian behind all of it
23:51 < fenn> are you going to put pressure on governments and universities to use and develop open source hardware?
23:51 < hoijui> there is some goal of trying ot get more open harddware adoption by hte industry, and a second goal (much more interesting.important to me), is to improve the state of open hardware (documentation)
23:52 < hoijui> pressure.... I could not imagine how
23:52 < fenn> well, however government works in europe. i have no idea
23:52 < hoijui> I personally am intersted, in increased awarenes of how important good documentation is in the OH community
23:52 < fenn> apparently the pirate party has been pushing the use of open source stuff
23:53 < hoijui> mmm
23:53 < hoijui> well... I am not interested much in this approach
23:53 < hoijui> I see that open hardware documentation is much worse then in hte software world
23:53 < hoijui> also collaboration
23:53 < fenn> if someone is not interested in documentation in the first place, they sure as hell aren't going to read that DIN document
23:54 < hoijui> some quite basic functionality is not there, awareness of it is not there, awareness of need for it is not there, ...
23:54 < hoijui> yeah of course, thinkerers shoudl not read it
23:54 < fenn> there was a website called "software carpentry" which was about introducing good practices like version control to "laymen" (scientists usually)
23:55 < hoijui> there should be tools that auto-rate projects by their openness
23:55 < hoijui> (e.g. Open-O-meter)
23:55 < hoijui> then you cna put a badge on your projects README with the rating
23:55 < fenn> yes about that open-o-meter. i was surprised to see that hexayurt 2 got an open-o-meter score of 0
23:56 < hoijui> yeah... as said.. basic tools ;-)
23:56 < fenn> despite the fact that hexayurt is one of the more clued-in projects, probably the same people designing the tools in the first place
23:56 < fenn> i mean i really could not fault their documentation at all
23:56 < hoijui> we also need auto-=generated tech-drawings of CAD parts, and much more (I don;t even know what all, am just a programmer)
23:56 < fenn> so the open-o-meter is measuring something else, like how complex or computerized the project is
23:57 < hoijui> yeah, it is limited
23:57 < hoijui> computerized stuff can be meassured somewhat accurately more easily, and that they did, i guess
23:57 < fenn> there is this misconception that "hardware" means "printed circuit board"
23:58 < fenn> a bunch of taped together foam boards cut with a knife doesn't seem to tick all the boxes
23:58 < hoijui> yeah.. we don;t have that
23:59 < hoijui> it is very simple.. open-o-meter is not good enough
23:59 < hoijui> in software it is easier, and it still took decades to get where we are now
--- Log closed Sun Jul 12 00:00:00 2020