--- Log opened Mon Jul 27 00:00:31 2020
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05:49 < lsneff> .t https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a33413777/pentagon-ufo-program-materials-vehicles/
05:49 < saxo> Government UFO Research | Pentagon Has UFO Vehicles, Materials
05:52  * L29Ah unfolds his tinfoil hat
05:55 < lsneff> I so wish UFOs were actually aliens. Would mean that some stuff that we thought was impossible is actually possible.
05:57 < L29Ah> pick one: immortality, FTL travel, suspended animation, molecular assemblers
06:01 < fenn> or just robotic spacecraft with really long travel times
06:02 < fenn> earth's atmosphere has been showing an extremely strange spectral signature for billions of years now
06:09 < lsneff> Even then, most concepts for propulsion that can go interstellar would barely work to the nearest star system.
06:10 < lsneff> I suppose long travel times would result then, as you said.
06:16 < lsneff> Still, the way UFOs are purported to move around in atmo would imply a propulsion system we don't understand.
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07:13 < kanzure> https://www.nisos.com/white-papers/rise_synthetic_audio_deepfakes
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07:27 < kanzure> fenn: it's actually a marketing thing. there was a comment on reddit digging into it.
07:27 < kanzure> about the materials
07:29 < fenn> kanzure what are you referring to?
07:31 < fenn> oh i didnt even read the popular mechanics article, for obvious reasons
07:34 < L29Ah> with really long travel times you can do really elaborate gravity assist manuvers
07:35  * L29Ah launches oumuamua at lsneff
07:36 < fenn> i'm trying and failing to find any news in the popular mechanics article
07:37 < L29Ah> probably it's time to list popular mechanics as just another shitty sensationalist media
07:37 < fenn> take it behind the barn and tell timmy popular mechanics is in a better place now
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07:52 < kanzure> fenn: see pm
07:53 < fenn> seriously
07:53 < hack_you_now> hey
07:53 < lsneff> kanzure: comment on reddit about the “alien” materials?
07:56 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/hx4hhs/explosive_ufo_report_in_nyt_mentions_offworld/fz54ki4/
07:57 < fenn> i'll start caring as soon as one of these mythical spaceship fragments are presented for public scrutiny by the scientific community
07:57 < fenn> until then it's talk radio
07:58 < lsneff> lmao at the comments in that reddit thread
08:00 < lsneff> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23943539
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08:38 < bsm117532> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.16.205534v1
08:38 < bsm117532> .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.16.205534v1
08:38 < saxo> A Self-Replicating Radiation-Shield for Human Deep-Space Exploration: Radiotrophic Fungi can Attenuate Ionizing Radiation aboard the International Space Station | bioRxiv
08:42  * fenn emits a deep sigh
08:46 < fenn> 75 years after the bomb and people are still so ignorant about radiation
08:48 < L29Ah> 18:38:39]<bsm117532> .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.16.205534v1
08:48 < L29Ah> i still prefer water coolant or fuel
08:49 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/h9YN5OxXFJY?t=7m30s
08:49 < saxo> No title found
08:50 < fenn> ah i did it again
08:50 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/h9YN50xXFJY?t=7m30s
08:50 < saxo> No title found
08:50 < fenn> ok this time it's the bot's fault
08:58 < fenn> a badly designed radiation shield can actually increase the biologically relevant dose, by creating secondary radiation, and end up being worse than doing nothing
08:59 < fenn> the problem in spacecraft isn't "how do we make it" it's "where do we get the mass with which to make it"
08:59 < fenn> on mars or the moon you can just pile a few meters of dirt on top of your base and be done with it
09:01 < L29Ah> high energy mass
09:02 < L29Ah> catch and pulverize all the space garbage happening to flyby earth to attach it to an outbound spacecraft on its way out!
09:04 < fenn> sure if you had a functioning tether network
09:04 < fenn> unfortunately, we don't, and there are no plans to build one
09:05 < fenn> the aldrin cycler seems like the most realistic proposal, if you decide to care about radiation
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09:05 < fenn> i have just decided to not care about radiation, excepting solar storms
09:06 < Urchin[emacs]> fenn: state of the art approach is to focus on electron density for radiation shield, so essentially, plastics (hydrocarbons having a lot of hydrogen)
09:06 < fenn> water is pretty good, and so is methane
09:07 < fenn> conveniently, any mars-bound starship will have several cubic meters of methane lying around
09:08 < fenn> also food and/or poop
09:08 < Urchin[emacs]> smearing poop around would have other problems
09:08 < L29Ah> nah, poop is too valuable as food
09:08 < fenn> no you take your poop bags and put it in the walls of your storm shelter
09:09 < L29Ah> while you don't want your food producing secondary radiation
09:10 < fenn> having a storm shelter inside the methane header tanks seems totally doable, and more mass than any other near term option
09:12 < fenn> "only about 1% of coronal mass ejections produce strong solar energetic particle events"
09:13 < fenn> i'm not sure but i don't think most solar storms create troublesome secondary radiation
09:13 < fenn> and there's directionality to think about
09:14 < fenn> if something's going at relativistic velocities, it's traveling in a straight line from the sun
09:14 < fenn> apparently lower energy solar particles can move in waves and apparently come from roughly half the sky
09:14 < fenn> i mean it looks like they're coming from half the sky
09:15 < fenn> so you need a thick shield pointed at the sun, and a thin shield all around, but only for solar events
09:16 < fenn> and then you have 5 minutes to get in the shelter
09:22 < lsneff> .t https://www.nature.com/articles/549336a
09:22 < saxo> A molecular assembler | Nature
09:26 < L29Ah> so just temporarily reorient the spacecraft to present the biggest amount of junk between you and the sun
09:27 < fenn> right
09:27 < fenn> if you're under gravity you'll probably have to de-spin, depending on the ship design
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11:12 < bsm117532> fenn I was less interested in that article for "radiation shielding" (which I agree is a dumb idea considering secondary radiation) and more interested in the repair mechanisms these fungi have that might be imported into a human genome. ;-)
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13:39 < lsneff> Have any of you dabbled with spaced repetition?
13:45 < L29Ah> i did, probably good stuff, but it seems like i haven't needed to learn anything that requires such sort of a hack since forever
13:46 < L29Ah> but i just generally don't have motivation to learn really complex and abstract systems w/o any concrete gains in the future
13:47 < L29Ah> and when i do, i can generally test my knowledge against the task (that seems better than the artificial testing cases)
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14:04 < lsneff> Okay, I see. I ask because I feel like my memory isn't as good as it has been, and my hypothesis is that I'm simply not forcing myself to learn information at the moment.
14:06 < L29Ah> it's really hard to test that hypothesis, as memory as is is multidimensional, and retaining any concrete chunk of information depends a lot on the environment, motivation and whatnot
14:10 < lsneff> My reduction in vocabulary is what has alerted me to my forgetfulness, so that's what I'm aiming for first.
14:10 < lsneff> I don't think the hypothesis will be _that_ difficult to test, though not to scientific standards, of course.
14:11 < L29Ah> do you mean anything more than "i forget all that fancy words that i was forced to study in school while reading those ancient texts"?
14:14 < lsneff> It's not that I'm forgetting useless, fancy words. Instead, I find myself trying to express *something* and am unable to in a way that I find satisfactory.
14:15 < lsneff> I subscibe to the view that language shapes the way the brain processes and learns information, so I'm trying to shape my own brain.
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15:51 < archels> lsneff: possible alternative solution: read more books
16:15 < lsneff> archels: I agree, I definitely should.
16:15 < lsneff> I end up reading a lot of scifi and scientific papers, should branch out.
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21:34 < fenn> lsneff: for your problem i recommend piracetam and choline
21:35 < fenn> spaced repetition is good for memorizing systems with lots of little random things that make no sense, like japanese or organic chemistry
21:37 < fenn> also, i'm pretty sure the sapir-whorf hypothesis was disproven
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21:51 < lsneff> I'll look into it, but I'm not sure how you disprove that sort of thing.
21:52 < lsneff> .t https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17570-1
21:52 < saxo> Nano-topology optimization for materials design with atom-by-atom control | Nature Communications
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 28 00:00:32 2020