--- Log opened Sun Nov 15 00:00:17 2020 02:26 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:27 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:52 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-56-55.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:16 -!- fltrz [~fltrz@109.236.129.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:33 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0:4483:ccec:13f6:1421] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:36 -!- fltrz [~fltrz@109.236.129.101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:41 -!- Hooloovo0 [Hooloovoo@sorunome.de] has quit [Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.] 06:01 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gitmjbxnrlfjbjui] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:03 -!- Hooloovo0 [Hooloovoo@sorunome.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:52 -!- Hooloovo0 [Hooloovoo@sorunome.de] has quit [Quit: Temporarily refracted into a free-standing prism.] 07:02 -!- Hooloovo0 [Hooloovoo@sorunome.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:04 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e621a87f Michael Folkson: Add Jonas and Tim on MuSig2 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/stephan-livera-podcast/2020-10-27-jonas-nick-tim-ruffing-musig2/ 07:04 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=73059fbd Michael Folkson: Merge pull request #178 from michaelfolkson/add-musig2 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 07:06 < kanzure> youtube-dl stuff https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/836830/b7289803a0c6820f/ 07:13 < kanzure> hacker news also dislikes josiah zayner https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25096386 07:16 < kanzure> "Ok, I think you are just playing word games here, using one very broad interpretation of the word eugenics when you say that gene editing is eugenics, and then a narrower interpretation of the word when you say that there are strong ethical claims against it. Things like forced sterilization are obviously unethical but the reasons have absolutely nothing to do with gene editing. Maybe we ... 07:16 < kanzure> ...could make this more concrete if you gave some specific examples of the ethical claims against eugenics that you are referring to, which you think also apply to gene editing." 07:27 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-najsotyoholmapxb] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:36 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:10 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gitmjbxnrlfjbjui] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:02 -!- chico [~chico@2a02:2121:283:93d5:9109:2267:f14a:ab70] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:34 < lsneff> .yt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49rcVQ1vFAY 09:34 < lsneff> .t 09:34 < saxo> Neil Postman on Cyberspace, 1995 - YouTube 10:01 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:11 -!- prometheus_1 [~root@88.230.141.147] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:11 -!- chico [~chico@2a02:2121:283:93d5:9109:2267:f14a:ab70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:12 -!- prometheus_1 [~root@88.230.141.147] has quit [Client Quit] 10:14 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:37 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hpskabywefigbtbc] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:14 < lsneff> .t https://interestingengineering.com/scientists-grow-bigger-monkey-brains-using-human-genes-replicating-evolution 11:14 < saxo> Scientists Grow Bigger Monkey Brains Using Human Genes, Replicating Evolution 11:19 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:23 -!- MarkOtaris [mark-otari@wikimedia/Mark-Otaris] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:10 -!- gigawatt [~gigawatt@unaffiliated/gigawatt] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:11 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:36 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25103084 12:36 < saxo> Scientists grow bigger monkey brains using human genes, replicating evolution | Hacker News 12:36 < kanzure> ah. 12:36 < kanzure> "Human-specific ARHGAP11B increases size and folding of primate neocortex in the fetal marmoset" https://science.sciencemag.org/content/369/6503/546 12:39 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Human-specific%20ARHGAP11B%20increases%20size%20and%20folding%20of%20primate%20neocortex%20in%20the%20fetal%20marmoset%20-%202020.pdf 12:50 < archels> https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-S0DvS1SB_OY/WMEq0LDZQQI/AAAAAAAAAwY/gGuvrILVjnklmElRdMgNdKpMTC07zez6ACLcB/s1600/GoalFP.png 12:51 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:55 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:04 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:14 -!- Malvolio is now known as Guest2419 13:14 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:16 -!- Guest2419 [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:29 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:18 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:36 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-56-55.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49 -!- sanehatter [~sanehatte@141.98.255.150] has quit [Quit: -] 16:52 -!- sanehatter [sanehatter@gateway/vpn/mullvad/sanehatter] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:54 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-najsotyoholmapxb] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:13 -!- gigawatt [~gigawatt@unaffiliated/gigawatt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22 -!- midnight [~midnight@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:54 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0:4483:ccec:13f6:1421] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:21 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:27 < fenn> i thought there were institutional rules against doing experiments where we put human brain proteins into animals, especially in monkeys 18:30 < lsneff> Wasn't able to find anything in a preliminary search ^ 18:30 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hpskabywefigbtbc] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:32 < fenn> maybe it only applies when they're brought to term, but it seems like a very fine line 18:53 < kanzure> don't start with me 18:53 < kanzure> it's my god given right to make monkey brains with human proteins 18:53 < fenn> uh huh 18:54 < fenn> i'm just wondering how it got past the IRB 18:54 < kanzure> "good, i'm tired of cleaning up those heaps of dead rhesus monkeys" 18:54 < kanzure> science cannot move forward without heaps! 18:55 < fenn> the ycombinator comments are just full of useless philosophy arguments 18:56 < kanzure> yes that's because people forget to apply their deep expertise to other subjects and assume making noise is a suitable alternative 18:56 < kanzure> so, i'm not sure why this would be an issue; all sorts of human embryo genetic engineering experiments have passed ethics review in the US. 18:57 < kanzure> we humanize mice all the time, for that matter 18:57 < kanzure> also, i think they didn't know if it would work? 19:00 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=830cd7af Bryan Bishop: science cannot move forward without heaps >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/ 19:09 < fenn> well if you somehow "make it work" i.e. make a 100% human cognitive functionality monkey brain, you've introduced a whole bunch of ethics issues. the point of the IRB restriction is to avoid having to consider all those ethics issues 19:12 < fenn> it's an ethics minefield. without having done the experiment, you don't know what issues it will raise, and by the time you do know, it's too late 19:25 -!- midnight [~midnight@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:25 < kanzure> sounds like raising children 19:26 < kanzure> but society chooses to do it anyway because we choose not to be pessimists about biology 19:26 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:44 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:44 < lsneff> having and raising children is such an ethical nightmare that entire societies have been built around invented belief systems that incentivise people to have lots of them. 19:48 < fltrz> the arguments here are just about as philosophical as on hacker news to be honest, ... sure we primates always like our in group out group games 19:53 < lsneff> I do believe philosophy is greatly discouraged on this channel actually 19:53 < lsneff> > no philosophy (violators that are bad at philosophy will be harshly judged) 20:05 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:12 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 21:41 -!- wallet42__ [sid154231@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ncscxpzcujbljapv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41 -!- wallet42__ [sid154231@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-knpprhnzjdzupiko] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:55 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:45 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap --- Log closed Mon Nov 16 00:00:18 2020