--- Log opened Mon Nov 16 00:00:18 2020
01:16 -!- ensign [~ensign@integer.musalbas.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
01:21 -!- ensign_ [~ensign@integer.musalbas.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
01:40 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
01:46 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:02 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:07 -!- sanehatter [sanehatter@gateway/vpn/mullvad/sanehatter] has quit [Quit: -]
02:37 -!- Livestradamus [~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus] has quit [Quit: I'm out.]
02:37 -!- Livestradamus [~quassel@unaffiliated/livestradamus] has joined ##hplusroadmap
02:50 -!- sanehatter [sanehatter@gateway/vpn/mullvad/sanehatter] has joined ##hplusroadmap
03:01  * L29Ah summons the ship of Theseus to the rescue
03:02 < Urchin> are you sure it's really the ship of Theseus?
03:17 < TMA> there is no longer any ship of Theseus to be summoned. it was hacked into pieces long ago with an axe that is a cherished heirloom to this very day
03:18 < L29Ah> i thought it was cryonized!
03:22 < fenn> it was frozen in liquid nitrogen and ground into dust for use as a children's playground covering material
03:25 < fenn> "Nothing can resist the power of science when freezing down to cryogenic temperatures" http://scraptiresusa.com
03:25 < L29Ah> hmm, i wonder if it's a good plan to recycle PET bottles
03:25 < L29Ah> too bad handling LN at DIY scale is such a PITA
03:26 < fenn> CryoVortex(tm) DISINTEGRATOR
03:26 < L29Ah> sounds expensive
03:27 < fenn> "the fee is $.75 to $2.00 per tire"
03:27 < L29Ah> Our preferred Liquid Nitrogen supplier is:  ???
03:27 < fenn> " How much nitrogen is required to reduce tires to crumb in one step?  The industry "rule of thumb" estimates one pound of nitrogen per one pound of tires"
04:09 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmktogeyhokuimnh] has joined ##hplusroadmap
04:17 < nmz787> hasn't it been found that tire waste has some sort of harmful/toxic offgassing and shouldn't be used for kids or living structures?
04:18 < nmz787> or is that just bad (fake) news drummed up by big oil (in their quest to sell more oil in the form of "new" rubber)?
05:01 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
05:27 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:25 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:27 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:31 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: TMA
06:32 -!- Netsplit over, joins: TMA
06:32 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dpkyelgnrkwiybgt] has joined ##hplusroadmap
06:44 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25107285
06:44 < saxo> What distinguishes great software engineers? (2019) [pdf] | Hacker News
06:44 < kanzure> https://faculty.washington.edu/ajko/papers/Li2019WhatDistinguishesEngineers.pdf
07:16 -!- yonkunas [uid403824@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-anhgdbkqndkxfmke] has joined ##hplusroadmap
07:51 < kanzure> cadquery 2.0 https://cadquery.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
09:01 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
09:15 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:22 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap
09:24 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dpkyelgnrkwiybgt] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
09:30 < lsneff> kanzure: After trying to compile xls (which is written in C++), I'm realizing how spoiled I am by rust.
09:38 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-56-55.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap
10:32 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:38 < kanzure> https://github.com/CadQuery/CQ-editor
10:39 < kanzure> https://github.com/CadQuery/cadquery/tree/master/examples
10:40 < kanzure> "The original version of CadQuery was built on the FreeCAD API. This was great because it allowed for fast development and easy cross-platform capability. However, we eventually started reaching the limits of the API for some advanced operations and selectors. This 2.0 version of CadQuery is based directly on a Python wrapper of the OCCT kernel."
10:40 < kanzure> 200 years from now we're still going to be using opencascade
10:41 < kanzure> huh "FxBricks uses CadQuery in the product development pipeline for their Lego train system. FxBricks has also given back to the community by creating documentation for their CAD pipeline. They have also assembled cq-kit, a library containing utility classes and functions to extend the capabilities of CadQuery."
10:41 < kanzure> https://fxbricks.com/
10:42 < kanzure> https://fxbricks.com/pfxbrick/
10:43 < kanzure> https://github.com/marcus7070/spindle-assy-example
10:52 < juri_> cadquery is neat.
10:52 < juri_> it's the only thing i've seen that has improved on openscad.
10:53 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
11:06 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
11:07 < kanzure> "what if we used micro-devices to handle microscopic objects??" https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-07-sperm-technology-success-vitro-fertilization.html
11:08 < kanzure> also: https://www.coindesk.com/mit-paper-rejects-blockchain-based-voting-systems-elections
11:36 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lmktogeyhokuimnh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
11:36 < lsneff> kanzure: Only if someone hasn't written a better one by then
12:40 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:50 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdpjbxvettgetlmu] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:02 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:02 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:03 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:05 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-56-55.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:36 -!- ensign_ [~ensign@integer.musalbas.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
14:37 -!- ensign [~ensign@integer.musalbas.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap
14:40 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235184237.dynamic-4-waw-k-2-0-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
15:00 -!- Human_G33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has joined ##hplusroadmap
15:01 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@2a01:e0a:5b9:7840:6600:6aff:fe5f:9d6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:13 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxsjmaihjkgfpsxf] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:11 -!- srk [sorki@unaffiliated/srk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
16:25 -!- srk [sorki@unaffiliated/srk] has joined ##hplusroadmap
16:40 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
16:45 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:31 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hjiyeyjhqfbszqgb] has joined ##hplusroadmap
17:46 -!- Urchin [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
18:01 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vxsjmaihjkgfpsxf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
18:10 < lsneff> Do any of you ever feel nostalgic for something that hasn't happened yet?
18:10 < L29Ah> i don't have feelings, i'm a chinese room
18:13 < lsneff> explains a lot
18:14 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/midmagic/status/1328504010353954826
18:14 < saxo> WARNING: If you want to retain DKIM proof ability, you'll need to OTS stamp any email you may wish to plausibly prove right now before Google releases their DKIM privkeys as Mr. Green is recommending they do. (@midmagic)
18:14 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/midmagic/status/1328504571560296448
18:14 < saxo> @murchandamus Stamp ALL your gmail mails, individually, immediately. Only mails stamped prior to the release of Google's DKIM keys will be provable post-release. (@midmagic, in reply to tw:1328504326894067713)
18:16 < kanzure> jrayhawk: any hints for using opentimestamp's ots against a 700 GB .mbox file? is there a good tool for dumping each item individually and rapidly?
18:16 < kanzure> preserving headers of each item, in particular
18:19 < jrayhawk> mbox-to-maildir converters can be used for such a thing
18:20 < kanzure> what archane magic is this
18:22 < jrayhawk> if you don't have the space for that, you're probably stuck using a real programming language; trying to for-loop an I/O stream into multiline variables is not something bash will save you time on
18:23 < kanzure> i have space.
18:31 < jrayhawk> there's also the 'formail' family, e.g. maildrop: /usr/bin/reformail, procmail: /usr/bin/formail
18:31 < jrayhawk> https://www.mankier.com/1/reformail
18:35 < kanzure> "The -s option splits the mbox-formatted mailbox file on standard input into individual messages. An external program is executed for each message. The contents of each individual message will be provided to the external program on standard input."
18:41 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/MarkFriedenbach/status/1328527904045600770
18:41 < saxo> @midmagic @kanzure Sounds like a very good thing. I’m doing nothing! (@MarkFriedenbach, in reply to tw:1328504010353954826)
18:42 < kanzure> i guess this is the classic argument about non-repudiation
18:45 < kanzure> jrayhawk: hmm. trying to pick a tool.
18:49 < jrayhawk> filesystems don't do tail-packing anymore, so expect an mbox-to-maildir conversion to increase size requirements by, like, 25%
18:50 < kanzure> yeah that's fine, i only need a streaming solution because i'm timestamping one file at a time and don't need to kee pit
18:50 < kanzure> keep it, rather.
18:53 < jrayhawk> lol what the fuck is this argument being presented? "criminals can use integrity and accountability tools, therefor we should get rid of integrity and accountability tools"
18:53 < jrayhawk> or, at least, that's the charitable interpretation
18:55 < kanzure> yeah
18:55 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25113482
18:55 < kanzure> https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2020/11/16/ok-google-please-publish-your-dkim-secret-keys/
18:59 < kanzure> "Some even pose a clever attack where recipients (or hackers who have persistent access to your email account) use a public timestamping service, such as a blockchain, to verifiably “stamp” each email they receive with the time of receipt. This allows such recipients to prove that they had the signed email before the DKIM secret key became public — and checkmate. This is a nice ...
18:59 < jrayhawk> maildir also makes it much easier to use modern indexing and querying tools such as notmuch
18:59 < kanzure> ...theoretical hack and it’s clever, but it’s also basically irrelevant in the sense that it addresses a stronger threat model."
18:59 < kanzure> what?
19:02 < jrayhawk> yeah, you know, those theoretical things that have been in production use in adverserial environments for years
19:02 < kanzure> "This is a nice theoretical hack and it’s clever, but it’s also basically irrelevant in the sense that it addresses a stronger threat model."
19:02 < jrayhawk> maybe someday, by some miracle, they will become a reality
19:02 < kanzure> this is a magically roflcopter thing to see written on an infosec blog
19:05 < jrayhawk> i think this is one of those https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik type of things, where the truth or falsity of an idea is not really under consideration, just the intention/will/agency
19:07 < kanzure> yeah preserving the integrity of NYPOST
19:07 < kanzure> or.. something. i don't follow politics.
19:07 < kanzure> see #bitcoin-forks
19:09 < jrayhawk> yeah, that's the uncharitable, more plausible interpretation of the argument
19:15 < kanzure> jrayhawk: `cat blah.txt | reformail -s timestamper.py` is giving me "reformail: exec() failed." and "write() failed."
19:15 < kanzure> (blah.txt is an mbox file)
19:15 < jrayhawk> do you need an explicit path for timestamper.py? otherwise it'll attempt to look it up in $PATH directories
19:16 < kanzure> ugh. yeah.
19:16 < kanzure> ok now it works
19:17 < jrayhawk> you can debug this sort of thing with strace -f $whatever 2>&1 | grep exec
19:18 < kanzure> huh, opentimestamps takes content from stdin, that's nice
19:20 < jrayhawk> oh, strace supports regexes. 'strace -e /exec -f $whatever' will catch the whole exec family.
19:20 < jrayhawk> hurf, wish i had noticed that years ago
19:26 < jrayhawk> but yeah, i think the basic structure of intuitions is isomorphic. "the intentionality of jew science differs from the intentionality of german science, and is therefore useless for german purposes" : "the intentionality of opentimestamps differs from the intentionality of DKIM, and is therefor useless for DKIM purposes"
19:26 < kanzure> alright now to double check that ots is not actually sending out all my email to petertodd's servers
19:26 < kanzure> midnight: any idea where to look for that?
19:27 < jrayhawk> their brain is just fundamentally agency-oriented, and they are trying to present their intuitions as idea-oriented with only a superficial knowledge of how ideas are presented
19:28 < kanzure> joey any naming scheme hints for these timestamp files? maybe Message-ID is appropriate?
19:29 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap
19:29 < jrayhawk> assuming you want to deduplicate, sure
19:29 < jrayhawk> the same message ID might exist with multiple sets of Received path headers.
19:30 < jrayhawk> i think most mbox processing tools attempt to deduplicate by that means anyway.
19:37 < jrayhawk> Or the same Message-Id might exist with different mailing list management mangling, since that used to be a lot more common
19:38 < jrayhawk> e.g. unsub footers in the body instead of 'X-Unsubscribe'-style extension headers.
19:40 -!- filipepe [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdpjbxvettgetlmu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
19:51 < kanzure> uh oh, got the same error about "exec() failed" a few minutes deep into the archive
19:55 < kanzure> midnight: jrayhawk: i'll just leave this for more clever minds to fix https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/mbox-hasher.py
19:56 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20:14 -!- potatope [sid139423@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qaryflawstkztvke] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
20:17 -!- potatope [sid139423@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hedpuzsbeothwhox] has joined ##hplusroadmap
20:30 < fenn> dunno why you'd be relying on DKIM to authenticate your own email
20:30 < fenn> aren't you basically admitting you have someone else's emails?
20:31 < fenn> also is this DKIM-can-be-used-by-criminals argument being taken seriously by anyone at google?
20:33 < fenn> "The way to have transparency into politician’s communications is to require them by law to be made public"  <- when i see this sort of comment i have to wonder if anyone is even trying
20:34 < fenn> on the one hand, that would never work
20:34 < fenn> on the other hand, why don't we have such laws already? more information available for scrutiny means it's easier to catch someone in a lie
20:44 < fenn> "the deepfake equivalent to the suggested solution is ... 'stop showing any video as news'"
21:16 < andytoshi> kanzure: to check if OTS is leaking stuff you can just use tcpdump and look for the quantity of information being sent
21:16 < andytoshi> or you can read the source code
21:16 < andytoshi> or you can write your own client :P
22:07 < jrayhawk> it seems probable that video evidence will stop being admissable in court, at least
23:06 -!- golden_ticket [~golden@pool-108-51-54-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:06 -!- golden_ticket [~golden@pool-108-51-54-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap
23:07 -!- dongcarl [~dongcarl@unaffiliated/dongcarl] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)]
23:08 -!- dongcarl [~dongcarl@unaffiliated/dongcarl] has joined ##hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Tue Nov 17 00:00:19 2020