--- Log opened Sat Jan 16 00:00:17 2021
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07:29 < docl> .title https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2351978920304534
07:29 < saxo> Intelligent Manufacturing Control Systems: The Core of Smart Factory - ScienceDirect
07:31 < docl> The new keyword is "intelligent manufacturing control systems" (discovered as part of my deep dive on nanotronics yesterday, this is something they are working on)
07:39 < docl> IMO grey goo self replicating assemblers are a ways further in the future vs factory systems that build copies of themselves using a combination of mechanical and chemical methods. nanoengineering gives you a lot of leverage in the catalyst department, simplifying a lot of processes. growing diamonds in a charcoal-water slurry, or pulling iron from ore using sunlight, is probably something you could de
07:39 < docl> sign the right spiroligomer to do.
07:41 < L29Ah> humans are grey goo
07:42 < docl> lol by broad analogy all replicators are
07:42 < docl> salt crystals, where does it end
07:42 < L29Ah> salt crystals aren't as pervasive!
07:44 < docl> the point of calling it grey goo is to insinuate nanoscale replicating machines
07:45 < docl> DNA+polymerase kind of is that, but the vision was something more like diamondoid robots -- tougher than life molecules
07:47 < docl> life molecules tend to be really fragile, needing a controlled environment (such as a cell or a test tube) to keep from degrading
07:48 < docl> spiroligomers are tougher -- amino acids bound with double bonds. less degrees of freedom, but they can be stuck together into precise shapes like molecular legos
07:52 < docl> so as I understand this, even without the gears, motors, flagella, etc. of life molecules or hypothetical diamondoid nanorobots, you get the ability to make a solution favor certain reactions by creating sites for the reactions to happen in. same thing as using platinum in car exhaust to break down the nitrous oxide, i.e. catalyst
07:54 < docl> so that means you can design custom structures of spiroligomers and create them using different spiroligomers. a chain of different reactions. then just pour amino acids with tiny bits of previously made spiroligomers in a series of containers and separate out the water each step.
07:55 < docl> at the molecular level, they are basically self replicating. but there's no real self replicating cell involved, it still depends on mixing the right things together and processing them a bit externally.
08:00 < docl> key insight is that a catalyst just influences the probability of specific reactions happening in a solution given the right precursor molecules. given this, stuff like going from graphite molecules to growing a diamond macromolecule doesn't look too far fetched if you have the right catalysts to favor that reaction instead of the other reactions that want to happen.
08:50 < lsneff> docl: speaking of, did you ever get involved with the spiroligomer project?
08:52 < docl> lsneff: not really, so far I've just read up on it somewhat and idle in the clasp chat. they mainly talk about compiler design/optimization, which is important for realistically simulating the molecular models
08:58 < lsneff> I still don't get why they picked lisp
08:59 < lsneff> He spent like 7 years building a llvm backend for lisp. Seems pretty roundabout to me.
09:05 < L29Ah> could have learned haskell instead
09:06 < lsneff> Could've just embedded luajit instead and been done in 2 weeks
09:08 < L29Ah> oh, so lisp isn't even the main language of the software?
09:08 < lsneff> Nope
09:08 < lsneff> It's written in c++
09:15 < docl> actually I think it's only partly c++ (although there's a lot of c++ code in it), there's a compiling chain where it bootstraps several different lisps
09:21 < lsneff> Oh, my mistake
09:27 < Urchin[emacs]> is that the guy who wrote a common lisp implementation that ties in to C++ libraries?
09:27 < docl> yep
09:27 < Urchin[emacs]> the idea is that C++ provides numerical libraries, and anything beyond that is better handled by common lisp
09:28 < docl> exactly
09:28 < Urchin[emacs]> he also had ideas about tying in maxima to translate formulas into code more or less directly
09:31 < lsneff> There is a very interesting talk he gave a number of years ago
09:32 < Urchin[emacs]> I've seen it, it was pretty interesting
09:32 < Urchin[emacs]> but, nice to see that he's getting use out of it
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11:34 < docl> Huh, nobody is even talking about nanotronics as working on self replicating systems, even though they apparently have their fingers in all the right pies to pull it off
11:34 < docl> https://www.google.com/search?q=%22nanotronics%22+%22self+replicating+systems%22
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13:05 < lsneff> .g nanotronics
13:05 < saxo> https://nanotronics.co/
13:17 < lsneff> Indeed it does
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15:33 < nmz787> I'm sorry, but what am I missing about nanotronics being involved in self-replicating systems? It looks like they just sell custom microscopes with off-the-shelf optics hooked up to some super-res computer algorithms
15:35 < nmz787> my google pixel smartphone has a similar algorithm that uses the shakiness of my hand to enhance image resolution...
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16:52 < kanzure> hmph
16:55 < kanzure> fenn: first contact ##chemistry 2006
16:58 < kanzure> fenn: i found genehacker in a student line-up for a college tour. he was annoying someone about reprap and explosives and i was like "okay what are the chances" and adopted him.
17:08 < kanzure> "Robust direct digital-to-biological data storage in living cells" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41589-020-00711-4
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18:58 < kanzure> https://www.designboom.com/architecture/superficium-communal-retreat-biohacker-communities-utah-desert-01-11-2021/?fbclid=IwAR0nzXeJg0j-6B1Z0F_BBuzNS_8nya5BdJVHdH9n7dP4Z4wJ2KYFSi_4I_s
19:07 < kanzure> http://blog.ssokolow.com/archives/2017/04/08/home-made-tamper-evident-security-seals-for-kids-and-adults-alike/
19:19 < fenn> as much as i hate glitter, sadly this is one place where it is the superior unique-fingerprint option
19:19 < fenn> if someone faked my signature i probably wouldn't be able to tell
19:25 < fenn> even better if the tamper evident seal isn't obviously a tamper evident seal
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--- Log closed Sun Jan 17 00:00:17 2021