--- Log opened Wed Feb 03 00:00:34 2021 00:42 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-94-112-205-34.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:59 -!- thahxa [~thahxa@lnsm1-toronto10-142-116-155-169.internet.virginmobile.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:51 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:21 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235180202.dynamic-4-waw-k-4-0-0.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:21 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:28 -!- join_cordblood [~join_cord@135-23-248-163.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:32 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:37 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:31 -!- sanehatter_ [~sanehatte@141.98.255.144] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:34 -!- sanehatter [sanehatter@gateway/vpn/mullvad/sanehatter] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:04 -!- yonkunas [uid403824@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eltgwrslmemdjiml] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:18 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@82-64-99-84.subs.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:30 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@82-64-99-84.subs.proxad.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:32 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@82-64-99-84.subs.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@82-64-99-84.subs.proxad.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:23 -!- thahxa [~thahxa@lnsm1-toronto10-142-116-155-169.internet.virginmobile.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:30 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 09:31 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:56 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235180202.dynamic-4-waw-k-4-0-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:26 < abetusk> Is there any reason not to do a POSAM like device with opentrons? Is there something inherent about the piezo electric nozzle? 11:56 < redlegion> I can't stop thinking about the soup tubes. 11:56 < redlegion> Who is this madman and who broke him? 12:06 -!- mrdata_ [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:09 -!- mrdata- [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:16 < branon> elon must is gonna create a competitor 12:16 < branon> souploop 12:16 < branon> offshoot of hyperloop 12:16 < branon> watch it be wildly successful 12:16 < branon> for no discernible reason 12:17 < apotheon> souperloop 12:31 < thahxa> abetusk: iirc the piezoelectric nozzle was used there because of the minute amount of liquid it could dispense at a time 12:33 < abetusk> thahxa, but opentrons has micropippeter attachments. Do you really need less volume than a micropippeter can dispense? 12:34 < thahxa> they claim pL-level drippings with that 12:34 < thahxa> i dont see why you couldn't build a similar machine with opentrons tho 12:34 < thahxa> but thats the reason for the printer cartridge business 12:36 < thahxa> but also the posam is meant not really for bulk synthesis iirc 12:36 < thahxa> but for glass plate microwelling or whatever 12:36 < thahxa> thats why theres alot of stuff on accuracy of dispencing and whatnot there 12:55 < docl> more labs on chips seems like a good way to get the molecular design space explored. I'm thinking of like spiroligomer catalysts. get people to run massively parallel labs on a server rack and submit the molecules to a public domain database for a small bounty. once you have the steps catalogued to make a molecule, you can make more of it in larger batches. 12:58 < docl> regardless of whether using it directly as PoW is feasible, a bitcoin mining like business model where you can get paid automatically for work accomplished automatically by your machines would be really helpful 13:02 < docl> best case would be if it can recycle the reagents indefinitely so you just plug it in and all you have to think about are energy costs and dealing with waste heat. needing to replace something like a printer cartridge for the reagents and dispose of waste complicates it a bit. 13:04 < lsneff> .t https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2021/02/03/rna-memory-hypothesis/ 13:04 < saxo> RNA memory hypothesis | Locklin on science 13:04 < lsneff> This is quite an interesting read. 13:18 < lsneff> Though there's a huge amount of research against it, it is interesting. 13:25 < thahxa> obviously not applicable to commercial scale but it seems to me a good amount of the waste from the dna procedure is _relatively_ harmeless 13:25 < thahxa> at least if you're a small scale synthesizer 13:28 < thahxa> at the same time though it'd be pretty difficult to reuse most of the reagents 13:28 < thahxa> or at least the expensive bit 13:28 < thahxa> ac2o goes bad the moment it hits water 13:28 < thahxa> but really those are (relatively) cheap compared to the cost of the bases anyways 13:29 < thahxa> which are like 5usd/g even in bulk 13:30 < thahxa> aside from dcm and seperating out the trichloroacetate (probably as sodium salt) i wouldn't worry at all about wasting most of the reagents in the cycle 13:30 < thahxa> well if MeCN is expensive where you live you can distill that off too 13:34 < thahxa> the issue i see with the whole "labs on chips" concept is that it requires pretty big economies of scale to get started doesnt it? 13:48 < docl> it's not really the cost of the feedstocks I'm worried about, more the labor of servicing it. ideally you just have a server farm and add chemlab racks as needed 13:49 < docl> then again, printer cartridges already work, and it might take a long time to run out 13:50 < docl> you'd need a separate cartridge (or chamber of the cartridge) to hold the waste 14:20 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:14 < thahxa> issue with the printer cartridge appraoch is that the chemicals are all air- and moisture- sensitive 15:14 < thahxa> so they don't last long (even less than printer cartridges holding ink already do!) 15:22 < thahxa> theres actually another issue i'd see with the whole "incentivize monetary compensation for people who synthesize dna" though which is that we kinda already do it 15:22 < thahxa> imo the issue isnt incentives 15:22 < thahxa> but more rather the ability for people to actually do the synthesis 15:26 < thahxa> at the same time dna synthesis is pretty damn expensive in and of itself 15:29 < thahxa> like the phosphoramidites or whatever are 5 bucks per gram 15:30 < thahxa> and for each base addition you need at least 2mg or so of that stuff 15:31 < thahxa> thats not even mentioning the ac2o and whatnot you need 15:31 < thahxa> although that stuff is basically pennies compared to the actual bases 15:31 < thahxa> (ac2o synthesis has some other issues but its not really that hard its just kinda nasty) 15:32 < thahxa> ig the real issue is just that dna synthesis is in a place where copying is (relatively) cheap but printing is pretty expensive 15:36 < thahxa> thinking about it more ig the microfluidic approach and/or inkjet approach helps with the reagent costs 15:36 < thahxa> though you need economies of scale to take advantage of that 16:14 < kanzure> https://bitcoinhackers.org/@rusty/105664386728806153 16:43 < lsneff> apparently neuralink is using c++ 16:43 < lsneff> not sure I want a c++ app in my head 16:44 < kanzure> i doubt that, they are probably using that on the phone not in the transmitter 16:47 < lsneff> kanzure: https://boards.greenhouse.io/neuralink/jobs/4209000003 16:48 < lsneff> implant embedded and firmware engineer listing 16:48 < lsneff> > Proficient in C/C++, Python 16:51 < lsneff> as much as I say this ironically as a rust-evangelist strike force member, they literally should be using rust 16:51 < lsneff> (or ada) 17:02 < apotheon> I'd really like to get around to learning Ada some day. 17:02 < apotheon> . . . then create a slightly slimplified implementation. 17:02 < lsneff> Conceptually, I think it looks cool, but practically, I think it'd be awful to write in 17:03 < apotheon> right 17:03 < apotheon> thus "slightly simplified" 17:03 < lsneff> ah, right 17:03 < apotheon> Part of the problem with Ada was almost certainly governmental interest in its early development. 17:03 < apotheon> If you don't want bureaucracy creeping into your software, don't get government involved in the design process. 17:04 < lsneff> it's not just a problem with government; look at c++ 17:04 < apotheon> Of course, I speak as someone who has looked at Ada, but hasn't really learned it, so it's always possible my understanding is somewhat incorrect. 17:04 < lsneff> I am in the same position 17:04 < apotheon> Yeah, well, C++ accreted that shit over decades. Ada was, at one point in its development, consciously designed that way. 17:05 < lsneff> Ah 17:05 < lsneff> Have you tried rust? Might scratch that itch... 17:06 < apotheon> Even though Bjarne has actually criticized the growing complexity of the C++ standard within the last half-decade or so, he still doesn't seem to have seen a feature he doesn't like. 17:06 < apotheon> He just seems to have finally reached the point where he doesn't necessarily want to see them all in the same language at the same time. 17:06 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:06 < apotheon> I started looking at Rust, but haven't really gotten very far. 17:07 < lsneff> Yes... well, I find his opinion a little suspect. Things like std::variant are bastardly 17:07 < apotheon> One thing that I find difficult with Rust is its compile times. I find that kind of thing pretty onerous with C++, so I'm not likely to find it less onerous with Rust. 17:07 < apotheon> I definitely disagree with Bjarne's apparently love for ANY AND ALL FEATURES. 17:07 < apotheon> The guy may be a genius, but that doesn't necessarily mean his judgement is good. 17:08 < apotheon> we all have our talents and shoftfalls, I suppose 17:08 < lsneff> Yes, that's a common complaint. To put into context, rust compile times are half or less what they were a few weeks ago. 17:08 < apotheon> err 17:08 < apotheon> s/shoft/short/ 17:09 < lsneff> "we all have our talents and shoftfalls, I suppose" indeed 17:09 < apotheon> yep 17:09 < lsneff> sorry, years, not weeks 17:09 < apotheon> Typing at a 45° angle to my left on a laptop hanging almost half-off the edge of the desk leaves me slightly more prone to typos. That's apparently my "shoftfall" now. 17:10 < apotheon> I was beginning to wonder what amazing breakthrough would reduce compile times to less than half what they were *only a few weeks ago*. 17:10 < apotheon> I'm still willing to give Rust a shot, though. 17:11 < lsneff> There have been a few instances of that happening. They dropped ~30% in a month during 2018 17:11 < lsneff> definitely give it another try 17:11 < apotheon> I saw someone's first impression of Rust as being like it was designed by someone who decided to reimplement C from scratch, when the person had only ever used Haskell before and only heard about C. That's a pretty intriguing description, and it makes me want to try it out for realsies. 17:12 < lsneff> That seems sort of reasonable 17:12 < lsneff> It's more ocaml mapped on C maybe 17:13 < lsneff> nonetheless, it's a great language, really productive 17:13 < apotheon> Now my compiled languages list is topped (in no particular order) by Ada, Rust, Go, Red, and some upstart things that aren't far enough along to be very recognizable. 17:13 < apotheon> I suspect the Haskell reference comes from monads and the way Rust tries to kinda encapsulate memory management. 17:14 < lsneff> weeeel, rust doesn't really do monads 17:14 < lsneff> There is absolutely similarity between rust and haskell 17:14 < lsneff> What's Red? 17:15 < apotheon> It's kind of an evolutionary improvement on REBOL. 17:15 < apotheon> It looks *really* cool. Its devs claim it's homoiconic, which really interests me. 17:15 < apotheon> It has been around for quite a while now, but it's not exactly what I'd consider "ready for prime time". It has actually *lost* a little bit of portability. 17:16 < Urchin[emacs]> I'm getting into Racket 17:17 < apotheon> I'm just glad Racket finally stopped pretending to be Scheme. 17:17 < apotheon> It was creating problems for the state of the wider Scheme community. 17:17 < apotheon> That was a long time ago now, I guess. 17:25 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-94-112-205-34.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xqhcaewlhsxrwhip] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:34 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 19:08 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-82-16.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16 -!- sanehatter_ [~sanehatte@141.98.255.144] has quit [Quit: -] 21:12 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xqhcaewlhsxrwhip] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:26 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmwxbjakkgnexjni] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:04 < thahxa> has anyone here asked alibaba sellers for the costs of phosphoramidites? 22:04 < thahxa> and if so whats a normal-ish cost to get back from them? 23:08 -!- thahxa [~thahxa@lnsm1-toronto10-142-116-155-169.internet.virginmobile.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:32 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dmwxbjakkgnexjni] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] --- Log closed Thu Feb 04 00:00:35 2021