--- Log opened Tue Feb 09 00:00:24 2021
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06:10 < kanzure> what's the feasibility of this ever providing launch capability? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electric_rocket
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06:12 < darsie> kanzure: 5 years. Could launch from "small" asteroids ;)
06:13 < darsie> Ah, you didn't ask for a time frame.
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07:23 < Llamamoe> Hello!
07:50 < docl> https://www.jove.com/v/4112/solid-phase-synthesis-functionalized-bis-peptide-using-safety-catch
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12:30 < fenn> kanzure: electric propulsion is low thrust to weight, not really suitable for use in atmospheres. maybe it would be possible to increase the efficiency enough with high temperature superconductors that you could lose a lot of weight from the system. and maybe it's possible to use a fusion reactor that weighs less per watt than fission reactors. and maybe some kind of magnetohydrodynamic thruster
12:30 < fenn> that has high efficiency and high thrust while still retaining the capability of high Isp that is the reason you would use electric propulsion at all. but by the time you have done all that you could have had a much better nuclear thermal rocket, which is simpler and more reliable.
12:33 < fenn> for fission based systems it's better to directly use the fission reaction products (high energy nucleus fragments) as your working fluid, as it means less heat to get rid of, and they have very high velocities
12:33 < fenn> uh, but not for launch
12:34 < fenn> for magical sci-fi launch vehicles that aren't 90% propellant, you need a high Isp, but not TOO high, or else the energy requirements go nuts
12:35 < fenn> energy required goes up with exhaust velocity squared
12:36 < fenn> anyway water is a perfectly fine working fluid and is commonly available
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12:46 < docl> given the need to use hazardous acids + inert atmosphere for spiroligomer synthesis, desktop mfg as simple as running a printer is probably not a viable dream (unless magic catalysts solve this? there's a step called deprotection where they need acids in the 2012 video) but with a proper fume hood and an argon canister I still think you might be able to do a lot in a well ventilated garage with an inkj
12:46 < docl> et. the same should be true of dna synthesis. has anyone tried jiggering up an inkjet printer for stepwise dna synthesis?
12:46 < darsie> A 1 N ion drive could launch a 1000 kg satellite from a 3500 m diameter asteroid with 2000 kg/m3.
12:47 < darsie> Now, could that be done by jumping ...?
12:49 < docl> thahxa: would ac2o degradation be a problem in an inkjet if you put it in an enclosure and replace the air with argon?
12:50 < thahxa> as long as the air is dry probably not
12:50 < thahxa> i'd check plastic compatability though
12:51 < thahxa> from what i remember its normally used as a solution in pyridine right? so the degredation would probably be not /that/ bad (well aside from the pyridine)
12:51 < darsie> Escape velocity would be 1.85 m/s. Jumping seems feasible.
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12:51 < thahxa> (although, ill note that one of the biggest issues with gettly ac2o isnt storage but more rather the dea)
12:52 < darsie> Or at least a suborbital hop with a weaker ion drive completing orbit and escape.
12:53 < thahxa> docl: do you know what acids they need for the spiroligomer synth? depending on the acid it might not actually be that bad (or more rather you'd be able to run it in your house if you were careful)
12:53 < thahxa> inert cas poses a problem though, although argon isnt impossible to get its pretty expensive
12:54 < docl> I wonder what plastic they use for those cartridges?
12:54 < docl> thahxa: they mention a solution of 95:5 trifluororacetic acid (TFA):triisopropylsilane (TIPS)
12:55 < thahxa> oh yea thats kinda-semi nasty
12:55 < thahxa> the silane is probably worse imo
12:55 < docl> TFA can cause nasty burns, so this is definitely not a kitchen grade experiment going by that alone
12:56 < docl> https://www.jove.com/t/4112/solid-phase-synthesis-functionalized-bis-peptide-using-safety-catch
12:56 < thahxa> never worked with tfa so i can't say much abt it
12:56 < thahxa> how bad is it compared to the common mineral acids?
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12:58 < L29Ah> inkjet cartridges are probably ABS
12:58 < docl> I'm only familiar with it from this news article https://cen.acs.org/safety/lab-safety/pays-graduate-student-hurt/98/i42
12:58 < thahxa> also you  might be able to get around TFA but i really don't know enough about the chem involved
12:59 < L29Ah> dunno about separate printing heads, the stuff i've seen has some rubber, ceramics and metal in it
12:59 < thahxa> oh alright thats a different thing that youre taklin about then
12:59 < thahxa> my first thought was the vapor pressure was an issue
13:00 < thahxa> but if it's just the fact that it's a strong acid that can be (mostly) lived with depending on the kind of person you are
13:00 < thahxa> wouldn't put it in a commercial product but wouldn't have any issues workin carefully with it either
13:01 < docl> gotcha
13:01 < L29Ah> NaOH drain cleaner is nastier than most mineral acids but it's still sold commercially to an average Joe
13:01 < docl> seems volatile by the wikipedia description
13:02 < docl> .wik Trifluoroacetic acid
13:02 < saxo> "Trifluoroacetic acid (TFA) is an organofluorine compound with the chemical formula CF3CO2H. It is a structural analogue of acetic acid with all three of the acetyl group's hydrogen atoms replaced by fluorine atoms and is a colorless liquid with a vinegar like odor.   TFA is [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifluoroacetic_acid
13:02 < thahxa> they sell sulfuric acid as a drain cleaner too actually
13:02 < thahxa> important part is that it doesnt have any wonky chem
13:02 < thahxa> from what i read its Just a strong-ish acid
13:03 < thahxa> i know for a fact conc. hcl fumes more (like for sure) at room temp
13:03 < thahxa> and conc. nitric definitely does
13:04 < fenn> docl: POSAM was an inkjet printer for parallel stepwise DNA synthesis, which we were trying to build a copy of, but the solvent fume extraction got in the way
13:05 < thahxa> https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2013/916960/
13:05 < docl> https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2004-5-8-r58
13:05 < thahxa> also apparently you can remove the boc group without acid
13:05 < fenn> please .title your incomprehensible links
13:05 < thahxa> .title https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2013/916960/
13:05 < saxo> Iodine-Mediated Neutral and Selective N-Boc Deprotection
13:06 < docl> .title https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2004-5-8-r58
13:06 < saxo> POSaM: a fast, flexible, open-source, inkjet oligonucleotide synthesizer and microarrayer | Genome Biology | Full Text
13:06 < thahxa> its solventless though so idk hwo that would work
13:07 < thahxa> also apparetly you can remove the boc group with hcl or h2so4 so those are decent alternatives
13:07 < thahxa> although imo id prefer h2so4
13:07 < fenn> scroll down to bottom http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/
13:07 < fenn> i forget where our actual project page went, but there was more than this
13:08 < fenn> maybe it was a separate git repo
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13:11 < fenn> man this wiki really needs to be reorganized
13:12 < fenn> like what the hell is this? and why was it linked as "FAQ" from the top level?
13:12 < fenn> http://diyhpl.us/wiki/proteins/faq/
13:12 < fenn> literally nobody ever asked any of these questions!
13:15 < docl> heh looks more like a table than a faq :P
13:15 < docl> cheat sheet maybe
13:15 < thahxa> bit of a strange table though
13:16 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=0214c2f6 fenn: add txt filetype suffix so web server will show it with the proper mime type >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/goals.yaml.txt
13:17 < thahxa> imo as a cheat sheet it should have the actual structure of the amino acids
13:17 < thahxa> .title https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/life-science/metabolomics/learning-center/amino-acid-reference-chart.html
13:17 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=896e20c1 fenn: add txt filetype suffix so web server will show it with the proper mime type >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/trans-tech.yaml.txt
13:17 < saxo> Sorry, title took too long
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13:23 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=85f4ff52 fenn: moving to its own dark corner because molecular weights of amino acids is not a frequently asked question >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/proteins/aminos_data_weights_atoms/
13:23 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=42c82e90 fenn: remove entry for amino acid data from "interesting pages" because its not interesting at all >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/index/
13:24 < fenn> more of an example how to use ikiwiki's csv to table functionality
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14:54 < lsneff> python is adding half-assed pattern matching
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17:02 < lsneff> when my failure analysis textbook says moment of inertia, turns out they actually mean second moment of area. oops
17:33 < fenn> did it say "area moment of inertia"?
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17:56 < lsneff> no, that would make sense
17:57 < lsneff> It's apparently common in this field to just say moment of inertia
17:57 < lsneff> I guess it's shorter
18:02 < fenn> awful
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19:36 < fltrz> huh, so I read about some in the wild DoS attack using UTF-8 characters crashing screen... feels like someone implemented my idea but wasnt me
19:37 < L29Ah> ﷯
19:37 < fltrz> I think the minecraft or smth attacker is crashing the rasterizer or smth
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 10 00:00:25 2021