--- Log opened Tue Feb 23 00:00:37 2021 00:05 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@50-192-147-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:06 -!- Sir_Alexei [uid348072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tjmpvweuoqloipnm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:07 < fltrz> GPU MFR's could simply hardcode challenge response mechanism: challenge HQ with nonce, HQ responds with current GPU side driver firmware and nonce signed by HQ, if not the GPU refuses to continue. Then miners won't be able to revert (since they can't force the random nonce in the GPU die to be the same as a prior one, so they can't replay a HQ response. Given that HQ can ensure GPU's are either inoperable or have the latest firmware, the firmware 00:07 < fltrz> can check if shaders are signed, and dev's could be vetted, or shaders uploaded so their nature can be verified before signing by HQ 00:08 -!- Sir_Alexei [uid348072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tjmpvweuoqloipnm] has quit [Client Quit] 01:43 -!- fltrz [~fltrz@109.236.129.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:44 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:57 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:34 -!- midnight [~midnight@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:34 < L29Ah> that's easy, just grab the auth thing from the first working driver binary 02:35 < L29Ah> ah, HQ, ok 02:36 < L29Ah> i wonder how many gpgpu developers are on the planet 02:39 -!- midnight [~midnight@unaffiliated/midnightmagic] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:45 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 02:52 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:52 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:09 -!- fltrz [~fltrz@109.236.129.101] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:18 -!- abetusk [~abe@68.175.128.91] has joined ##hplusroadmap 04:59 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:02 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:38 -!- bsm1175321 [~mcelrath@50-192-147-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:27 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:46 < lsneff> Requiring gpus to talk to a server is a terrible idea 06:48 < fenn> fltrz: try coming up with ideas that make the world better 07:28 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:01 < fltrz> fenn, lol wasn't fantasizing how to make it worse, just pointing out it would be very easy to ban mining / shift burden of proof of not mining onto developers 08:03 < fltrz> pretty sure lots of iot stuff and smartphones have similar scorched earth preparations 08:17 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:33 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:53 < L29Ah> top smartphone producers already demand signed firmware 09:13 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:22 -!- thahxa [~thahxa@vlnsm7-toronto63-142-116-127-110.internet.virginmobile.ca] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:33 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:05 < lsneff> That is a bit different. Smartphones can run unsigned code. 10:09 < apotheon> 14:46 < lsneff> Requiring gpus to talk to a server is a terrible idea 10:09 < apotheon> agreed 10:10 < apotheon> It seems like the non-indie computer game industry is heading toward a world where ever-more games -- even games with (in principle) no reason to be connected to the internet -- require calls home to the motership to even start. As such, GPU producers might not realize this is a terrible idea. 10:11 < superkuh> 10:11 < apotheon> (It's not like corporate entities with people doing work that requires GPUs would likely have a problem with license verification across the internet on every startup, if they're the kinds of corporate entities that have any problem with using Oracle or Microsoft.) 10:11 < apotheon> superkuh: It's not just "coming". It's in progress. 10:12 < apotheon> Hopefully, it collapses under the weight of its own stupidity. 10:12 < apotheon> In a world where the economic landscape isn't perverted by bizarre regulatory climates, favoring general purpose computing should be a clear competitive advantage, after all. 10:14 < apotheon> Then again, Mexico seems to want to break all ability for people to engage in non-corporate-lock-in computing activities in any way. My smartphone would get me ten years in prison there, under the rules against modifying the software running on computers. So would my laptop. 10:14 < apotheon> (up to ten years, to be fair; it could conceivably be less) 10:28 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-94-112-205-34.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:34 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:40 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:17 < L29Ah> when i read this, i want to immigrate to somali 12:18 < L29Ah> (but then i'd probably end up caught and sold for ransom or enslaved as it's just another fundamentalist muslim shithole) 12:27 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-94-112-205-34.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:22 < apotheon> Just don't go to Mexico, I guess. 13:22 < apotheon> ever 13:22 < apotheon> 'cause fuck that place 13:23 < apotheon> Between the government and the cartels (which wouldn't likely exist without their government), it's just not a sane place to live or visit. 13:24 < apotheon> I feel for the poor souls stuck there. 14:05 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eqffuprljuojztdy] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:18 < juri_> L29Ah: join the sane people, in europe. 14:19 < L29Ah> what sane people? 14:20 < L29Ah> i'm suspicios of people identifying themselves as "sane" 14:28 < apotheon> There are no sane places in the world. 14:28 < apotheon> . . . except maybe some of the non-claimed parts of Antarctica or some parts of the ocean so inhospitable that nobody goes there. 14:28 < apotheon> something like that 14:30 < apotheon> If you think you live in a sane place, have a look at the tax code some time for a wake-up call. 14:31 < apotheon> We live in a world where business regulations supposedly intended to rein in the predatory policies of big, monopolistic corporations tend to have a more significant negative effect on small companies that aren't doing anything particularly wrong. 14:31 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:32 -!- r3mZx [~r3m@189.154.14.120] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:33 < r3mZx> /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ 14:33 -!- r3mZx [~r3m@189.154.14.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33 -!- DanPineH [~DanPin@node-2pg.pool-118-173.dynamic.totinternet.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:34 < DanPineH> /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ 14:34 < DanPineH> /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ 14:34 < apotheon> no it hasn't 14:34 < DanPineH> /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ 14:34 < DanPineH> /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ 14:34 < DanPineH> /!\ this chat has moved to irc.crimeircd.net #0 /!\ 14:34 < apotheon> hmm 14:34 < apotheon> I said more here about that than I intended. I forgot which channel this was. Sorry. 14:34 < apotheon> (about the legal stuff, I mean) 14:35 -!- DanPineH [~DanPin@node-2pg.pool-118-173.dynamic.totinternet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43 -!- ynyounuo [~ynyounuo@n11211847217.netvigator.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:43 < ynyounuo> D4yis5hJF5xGzhtxsmfSa6H6c1oNRQrvxbcoKvKZ2Cm2EeCLta8IbserUt8D7lPR74g5tQ8uT3sQw8vwBQHGxzSvGET1VwoKcsH2mKVJvbbUk2G2wXduUCql 14:43 < ynyounuo> 5Cmxe0MoEYQKzfCa076yzo6SYAUxgbsuf3NW0Re9mgKeWvfErG5ItCgJmmVt6a8nYtvVo2qvmfJ656wNN6Ks6TXB5cBqsAZ4IyslYHujmwkBjmrCLO3MuYID 14:43 < ynyounuo> FEipuM8Aio1laV6sFOXgc8Ess7wlf0b9yLApezjQQAJPXDoaCQGVU01wBeeL3U777spECDqQIgP4tbr5ELnXAy5r7UNtKd96biHrZu7wqdiabjHHtC8amyg8 14:43 < ynyounuo> SfIxdBC7U3EUAxDiTtnvOUmhBcFhz913FJhrCO0l4QGylMUxGqhFTLZN2m1XfhTaPk4gf3ciyvaGXhHqCcT7FN21jnhab3HfsS5hbfVBTsi3L4v0JhyEbnqt 14:43 < ynyounuo> a6Z8AepNxWCeiVQzRkXa2JWyDKT8eq1HmvhNhb3ni9OIB8uqtjBSsuBL04HxxR6bKzgkTJlojSnFROeI0aBl8qkHxmQvrKzDtfNYJobm4snqgosJb6UVZGeg 14:44 -!- ynyounuo [~ynyounuo@n11211847217.netvigator.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44 -!- lunaaa [~lunaaa@190.140.33.111] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:45 < lunaaa> RRhOHNA71ttzrFwobVspDlmcqy0xYk0hRs0KDVRIUcybJyGuiUi1M8lQstPBRO1c3zTE6ugrBSJpjPjtD8JgLRt4l9OMFQiO9F7G7sDs9UxKUZg2CRCfNKAk 14:45 < lunaaa> 6R01vXJJlxy7agIa4G1ajnx0nQnWIbjhQUukWlNAzLVvMW7emUuSKA8DcJ1jEQzONukcIColaPB3Uu9nY9doL02JJtYGrsENEUoZUkarfx7Q93slOggAfQlm 14:45 < lunaaa> jLoRcYSUWY9M8BZo7e4bjuDf5yhmseklkuD4D496k7j4mYkTuC1PsfNsWErzCMCNfP16p93crR3NQBow8kwFFOr31OICcXx4CXcZQaodTRwQVkZaDSxGlchv 14:45 < lunaaa> KMPmKHEfyJGC3Hc2ddClncqbZE5KJMf4sDNF1rSzarVdXbfiI0pxucucqtVFuw6n58YrxmSTih6nXLE7UVXgLRPaUu4APTjKyW5W7CN9aW6dTw7FvE91TDa0 14:45 < lunaaa> VT3vp6IpOk3Qx1vgQHFSUpFAuD3JKY2LcXjlHdGVfiwa1W3oxVBd5ivlLYnL4PLxHRIsy47whzdqWRzbo8rauEfGjCE08jgSCR20xHAWVGfnmNpxma4AHqJ0 14:46 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Hooloovo0 14:46 -!- lunaaa [~lunaaa@190.140.33.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47 -!- Guest1934 [~Guest1934@WGPON-3952-145.wateen.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:47 < Guest1934> EdaLyFBAs7A8iG5ddMgi3rROWcTsWRGllKPi0ojrIUaYhWCpLjSTR9TJJxBivJgcmN3nJoLWjHieXuAn1NyuiYqfLmo52I6KQHZywzY4Bl7Pu3Efr8ZqHB1G 14:47 -!- Guest1934 [~Guest1934@WGPON-3952-145.wateen.net] has quit [K-Lined] 14:48 -!- boltWZ [~bolt@103.127.130.214] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:49 -!- boltWZ [~bolt@103.127.130.214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51 -!- pierte [~pierte@116.100.121.118] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:51 < pierte> r82R4yOnytSZHHYrhShHDjPObThY5MW8ZamJaLUD15seL48iK8VarEu7YbLsGxnBP2Lp1hOJVyHMCKOprwmRDeOssE7ETowgAQcaWNANJxuOK89yiFfrvhJG 14:51 < pierte> MrpBm9jZNa4hjw4k8GsxUW31eb0rMTRJOi6dHTQgCiySTmLVE2YwNqP44wcSaFQsuhO7y3vtYFSnpkyT3Na6tpb0d2smLDLZuXrXPXPrWEUWLdtZ382aMGWj 14:51 < pierte> s5gXWUij5Zmateun2IC2CmKLefH3yGu0CQrBdmtsY3w5YXPtXLddSn4dM6lkvhqPvFwlPQusmnKDaUwr46EyEe3GhsCSsHj8CCRONVnjKLYH9kc4j5Lzbtk0 14:51 -!- pierte [~pierte@116.100.121.118] has quit [K-Lined] 14:53 -!- node9pZ [~node9@91.224.168.104] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:54 < node9pZ> pKrL9nWgrLKTJ1jYp3pIIqWFF4HB9WbLeNHPeC4gdBvt2qxqWf0bqpusKbkkBuQqQirKV1gYjNBjny3Dd2j81BBFwKCTuV4EVGuVJtm1hWH0BisMPnnUnY9N 14:54 < node9pZ> frPWJivR5YUXxOrKzprxh72YbT8no4lFtWUF4WuQMk2B4pBukAK7wJ92pHkHObk8ASCIESODHRawQeJvzeQCvHuSMjiTmrzRLvt5ItGpQICzRRCE1kFyIavh 14:54 -!- node9pZ [~node9@91.224.168.104] has quit [K-Lined] 15:01 < fltrz> did anyone read about the Valve & OpenEEG collaboration? its portrayed as the next big thing in gaming, but really, to me it looks like the next big thing in EEG: collect huge EEG datasets by having gamers wear EEG headsets for minimal added benefit (for now), and offload all the mounting and fiddling with electrodes to the end user, and collect their data for free (and how it correlates with in game movement / content / decisions) 15:04 < fltrz> on first sight this would backfire as soon as the gamers realize the headset isn't adding much to the experience, but once they have it laying around, Valve can offer discounts / free games in exchange for / proportional to hours of extra data 15:04 < apotheon> and thus improve targeted advertising and suspect profiling 15:05 < apotheon> "If you think they're invading your privacy now, just wait until they start tracking whether you get sexually aroused by in-game events." 15:07 < fltrz> I don't think thats their goal, its just cheaping out on shitload of research, that would otherwise require many skilled man hours of mounting electrodes, and giving instructions to test participants 15:07 < fltrz> but targeting yes 15:07 < fltrz> for advertisements etc 15:10 < apotheon> What's not their goal? 15:10 < fltrz> apotheon, the thought crime thing? 15:12 < apotheon> Oh, well, everything with the capability for it eventually becomes potential thoughtcrime stuff in the hands of governments and corporations. 15:12 < apotheon> (for some definition of "thoughtcrime") 15:15 < fltrz> but I certainly agree that given enough time that converges with what you say. in some dystopian future innocent suspects will get handcuffed, forced to wear BCI, with some lazy status quo cops without a clue pushing them around the crime scene and interrogating over and over again. the only way to prove your innocence of course being doing the job of the lazy cops, by asking the right questions ("did you check if there is a weapon in the water 15:15 < fltrz> well")... which is then of course used against you since you came up with the idea, so damned if you do, damned if you dont 15:15 < apotheon> Things constantly seem to be angling that way. 15:16 < apotheon> There comes a time when you just have to look at the state of the law and pick somewhere else to live. 15:16 < apotheon> . . . or constantly surveil yourself, keeping video records around for years, and make damned sure you avoid doing anything that might accidentally look like a crime, ever. 15:16 < fltrz> I am rather optimistic, (if we survive the coming 20 years) 15:16 < apotheon> That's pretty difficult, considering the complexity of legal code makes everyone a criminal every day, pretty much. 15:17 < apotheon> Yeah, the coming twenty or thirty years is potentially a very critical time. 15:17 < apotheon> Afterward, with any luck, the issue will become moot -- either because some things have changed for the better or we're all basically dead anyway. 15:17 < fltrz> the fraction of the youth that is getting acquainted with actual cryptography is increasing, and ultimately thats what will set us free 15:17 < apotheon> hope so 16:07 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:56 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:03 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00 -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has quit [Quit: Bye] 18:04 -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:17 -!- sknebel [~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:17 -!- sknebel [~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:38 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:13 -!- sknebel [~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de] has quit [Quit: sknebel] 19:14 -!- sknebel [~quassel@v22016013254630973.happysrv.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:17 < lsneff> Lots of spam today. Weird that it's not selling something or trying get you to visit a link 20:45 -!- justan0theruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:50 < kanzure> https://open5g.info/ 20:56 < lsneff> School's been quite oppressive lately, feels like that's the only thing I have time to think about from when I wake up to when I go to bed. 21:03 < kanzure> leave 21:03 < kanzure> you'll thank me later 21:28 -!- juri_ [~juri@178.63.35.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:57 -!- filipepe_ [uid362247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eqffuprljuojztdy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] --- Log closed Wed Feb 24 00:00:38 2021