--- Log opened Mon Mar 08 00:00:51 2021
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06:17 < lsneff> I don't even know where you found that, but it's probably just like "don't be racist, don't the sexist, don't be an asshole"
06:19 < lsneff> I don't see why that requires such a violent reaction
06:41 < lsneff> anyhow, the software itself does seem quite useful
06:41 < lsneff> block references are links to specific blocks of text on other pages
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10:59 < andytoshi> rich people asking how to live forever https://www.reddit.com/r/fatFIRE/comments/m0fht9/how_to_age_better/
10:59 < andytoshi> if you have any particular projects that could use some shilling, that's a good thread to join
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11:52 < lsneff> It's interesting how many people want to "age better", but can't make the leap to not wanting to age at all.
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15:04 < nmz787_> fenn: homeschooling is allowed in CA... the kids will never miss a day then!
15:07 < apotheon> lsneff: Maybe it has something to do with "age better" options being things you can (supposedly) buy now for yourself, and "not age at all" being something you can pay for someone else to get in eight generations (or so people think, at best) after you're already dead..
15:07 < apotheon> Of course, that might be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
15:08 < fenn> we could have been on mars in 1980
15:08 < fenn> humans are lame, that's it.
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17:40 < lsneff> .t https://mobile.twitter.com/mkaeberlein/status/1351550389582086144
17:40 < saxo> @jpsenescence Depends what you mean by "significantly". My guess is we already have, or soon will have, interventions that can achieve 10-20 years of added healthspan for most people. I'd call that significant, considering it's more than you get from curing cancer and heart disease combined. (@mkaeberlein, in reply to tw:1084560766735450113)
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18:31 < fenn> some anti-aging researchers believe that once we push back deaths from age-related diseases, cancer and heart disease will become the main cause of death
18:31 < fenn> i find this sort of hard to reconcile because i believe that cancer and heart disease are mostly due to aging
18:31 < L29Ah> but cancer and heart disease ARE the main causes of death
18:32 < L29Ah> https://www.cdc.gov/injury/images/lc-charts/leading_causes_of_death_by_age_group_2018_1100w850h.jpg
18:33 < fenn> what if you add all the other stuff up, like parkinson's and influenza
18:33 < fenn> even "unintentional injury" is suspect
18:33 < fenn> when you can just fall over and break a hip
18:34 < L29Ah> anyway the whole argument makes little sense as diseases blend as they pile up
18:35 < L29Ah> when we fight aging we fight disease and vice versa
18:35 < fenn> it feels like we're stuck in some aristotelian ontology that bears no resemblance to reality
18:37  * L29Ah wonders what portion of this channel's regulars takes metformin
18:37 < fenn> do you take metformin?
18:37 < L29Ah> yes
18:37 < fenn> probably 1/N then
18:41 < lsneff> I would, but I can't get access to it without undue effort
18:49 < fenn> common objections to anti-aging and their counter-arguments https://agingbiotech.info/objections/1pager.pdf
18:50 < fenn> metformin is interesting but i heard it makes you feel like crap. also i don't even know how to go about getting a prescription for it
18:51 < L29Ah> i didn't notice any crappiness when i started taking it
18:55 < apotheon> I think the most common cause of objections is a fear of confronting the idea that we're not *supposed* to die, thereby making their lives a constant battle against fear of death, the acceptance of inevitability being the only thing that lets them focus on something other than worrying about how to avoid dying.
18:56 < apotheon> Existential dread might overwhelm many people if they had to confront the notion that there's nothing wrong with trying to live forever -- and that it's possible, and that it's also possible to fail to achieve that goal.
18:57 < fenn> yes i think the reason most people are opposed to transhumanism and biological fiddling in general is that it forces them to confront the fact that we're all made out of meat
18:57 < fenn> and thus actually going to turn into mush and be gone
18:58 < fenn> vs some happy fantasy with a glowing bearded man sitting on a cloud
18:58 < apotheon> More to the point, *apart from meat*, it's not at all clear what else constitutes "us", or whether there is anything else, so the stories people tell themselves no longer have sensible bases.
19:01 < L29Ah> btw is this mandatory prescription thing USA-wide, or some states are saner than others?
19:01 < fenn> drug scheduling is done on a federal basis
19:02 < fenn> there are some states that have decriminalized a few drugs, but the federal government still considers them illegal
19:02 < fenn> marijuana etc
19:02 < L29Ah> i don't mean drugs that are illegal to possess, just those that you need a licensed meatbag to prescribe, like metformin
19:03 < fenn> i don't expect a swat team to break down my door for having metformin, but also i can't go down to a shady alley and buy metformin
19:03 < L29Ah> shady internet pharmacy? shady bag of metformin packs in your carry-on from canada/mexico?
19:03 < fenn> it's the same regulatory framework for all drugs
19:04  * L29Ah has no idea of the possible loopholes
19:05 < L29Ah> .t https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1595276/ lol even a scientific paper
19:05 < saxo> Sorry, links cannot contain spaces
19:06 < fenn> the FDA decides which drugs require a prescription, and the DEA decides which drugs a murder squad can be dispatched to your house for possessing
19:08 < fenn> .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1595276/
19:08 < saxo> Purchasing prescription medication in Mexico without a prescription. The experience at the border - PubMed
19:08 < fenn> 1992
19:09 < fenn> probably AIDS related
19:10 < fenn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Buyers_Club
19:24 < L29Ah> .t https://kjzz.org/content/9435/mexico-texas-risk-illegal-trade-prescription-medicine
19:24 < saxo> Mexico To Texas: The Risk In Illegal Trade Of Prescription Medicine
19:25 < L29Ah> apparently you can only bring stuff for yourself; a loophole but an inconvenient one, except for those living near the border
19:34 < lsneff> I’m surprised no one has come up with a desktop machine that can make most drugs. Certainly should be possible.
19:37 < fenn> nobody does anything
19:40 < L29Ah> sounds expensive
19:41 < L29Ah> basic chemical lab work is very diverse
19:42 < lsneff> Probably easiest to print bespoke reaction chambers for each process.
19:42 < L29Ah> yeah
19:42 < L29Ah> otherwise you have to start with something like https://www.amazon.com/Jacketed-Glass-Reactor-Vessel-Explosion/dp/B00ROSQGEU
19:43 < L29Ah> with a shitload of plumbing for the feedstock
19:44 < lsneff> I even have a paper lying around somewhere about exactly that
19:44 < lsneff> Not sure if I can find it; I really need better archival tools
19:44 < L29Ah> also FDM-printing solvent-resistant plastics is hard, and they aren't cheap
19:44 < lsneff> True, but you’d only need to do it once for each drug
19:45 < L29Ah> mind the development
19:45 < lsneff> And you may be able to sputter-coat the insides, haven’t thought to much about that
19:45 < lsneff> that’s also a good point
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19:57 < lsneff> I don’t think I found the one I was thinking about, but here’s another
19:57 < lsneff> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/LVHMrOwy/Automatic+Generation+of+3D-Printed+Reactionware+for+Chemical+Synthesis+Digitization+using+ChemSCAD.pdf
19:58 < lsneff> There are a number of papers about similar things
19:58 < lsneff> I guess someone just needs to start a company to build this
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20:00 < lsneff> If the cad startup doesn’t work out, maybe I will
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20:03 < L29Ah> 06:54:17]<L29Ah> and even with basic 3d printing capabilities, you still need liquid and vacuum pumps, stirrers, filters, heaters, liquid- and gas-tight valves, maybe centrifuges, chromatography and pressurized vessels
20:03 < L29Ah> 06:55:20]<L29Ah> ofc you can trade some elbow grease for the tricky parts, but it's no longer "a desktop machine that can make most drugs" at this point
20:03 < L29Ah> 07:00:00]<L29Ah> also seems like access to HPLC and NMR or mass-spectrometer is a must during development of each new routine
20:05 < lsneff> Definitely difficult
20:06 < lsneff> I see that you’ve had a prior conversation about this exact thing
20:06 < L29Ah> i did?
20:07 < lsneff> Yeah, you just quoted from it
20:08 < L29Ah> i quoted the messages that i sent to this channel just before the irc server i was on went down
20:08 < lsneff> Gotcha
20:10 < lsneff> If it’s possible though... could change a lot of people’s lives
20:11 < L29Ah> you may check those: https://fourthievesvinegar.org/
20:11 < L29Ah> they went out of business quite quickly though it seems
20:15 < lsneff> Yeah
20:15 < lsneff> Weird branding too
20:24 < lsneff> Oh, it'd be pretty essential for space colonization too
20:30 < fenn> the guy had no idea what he was doing either
20:30  * fenn grumbles
20:37 < lsneff> same
20:40 < lsneff> That project does seem right up this channels alley
20:43 < docl> I'm thinking a POSAM type setup for spiroligomer synthesis could be achievable. that's more specialized than "most drugs" though (unless/until spiroligomer catalysts get good enough to let you get away with less stuff)
20:47 < lsneff> Don't you generally want to make a lot of a single kind of spiroligomer?
20:50 < docl> depends on how it is to be used -- catalysts can function in small quantities
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22:09  * fenn mumbles about aptamers
22:10 < fenn> many catalysts work by bringing the two reactants together, making it more likely that they are in the same place at the time they have enough energy to get over the reaction barrier
--- Log closed Tue Mar 09 00:00:51 2021