--- Log opened Tue Apr 27 00:00:38 2021
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07:07 < kanzure> yeah it's not clear to me why 1mm is not widely available
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09:10 < nmz787__> kanzure: 1mm process node? 1000 microns??? That isn't even in the "micro"-chip realm
09:10 < nmz787__> maybe you mean 1 micron?
09:16 < L29Ah> and silicon wafers aren't that cheap
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10:55 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=da2cfbbf Michael Folkson: Add Sjorsnado on Taproot activation >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/bitcoin-magazine/2021-04-23-taproot-activation-update/
10:55 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=e523a44d Michael Folkson: Merge pull request #220 from michaelfolkson/sjorsnado-taproot-activation >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/
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12:40 < L29Ah> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC1o9CjeefI
12:40 < saxo> YouTube
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13:24 < lsneff> .t https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26957942
13:24 < saxo> So Figma is written in JS and C++, compiled to WebAssembly so it runs in a brows... | Hacker News
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18:04 < lsneff> .t https://www.mightyapp.com/
18:04 < saxo> Mighty | Faster Google Chrome that uses 10x less memory
18:05 < lsneff> This makes me feel like the web has failed.
18:08 < superkuh> That happened when whatwg started taking precedence over w3c.
18:11 < lsneff> Perhaps, but that feels different. This is a total reversal of what the web means.
18:13 < fenn> "streams your browser from a powerful computer in the cloud"
18:14 < fenn> seems perfectly in line with the cloud conspiracy
18:15 < kanzure> i have a business idea related to this concept
18:15 < kanzure> requires some browser hacking though
18:15 < lsneff> I have no doubt websites will start doing this automatically. They'll just stream the website as a video stream
18:15 < superkuh> There are two views of the web. This is the one that has money behind it.
18:15 < kanzure> many, many web services do not implement multi-party authorization of sensitive actions so why not implement a browser proxy service that requires that of two or more users before an actual "web action" is taken in a browser (would involve DOM hijacking and other things)
18:15 < superkuh> But it doesn't mean the other can't persist under the layer of shit that is modern web.
18:17 < superkuh> I think this might particular streaming of browsing might not be economical for the web host though. They already push as much to client side as possible.
18:17 < superkuh> -might
18:20 < lsneff> In that case, they'll just compile their app to wasm and render it to a texture on the webpage.
18:20 < lsneff> Impossible to block adds
18:21 < fenn> superkuh, the mighty "app" is a paid service that runs on a third party server, so that objection doesn't apply; they're still offloading the rendering cost to the user at the end of the day
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18:23 < fenn> lsneff: it's good you're starting to see why we don't like having to run arbitrary code
18:23 < lsneff> The thing is, I think running arbitrary code is a net positive.
18:24 < lsneff> It would've been nice if pages had to request permission to run code for more than a millisecond or something.
18:24 < fenn> that's missing the point
18:26 < fenn> back in the days of yore, there was this concept of a "user agent" - a program that did what the user wanted, whether that was to display something akin to a piece of paper, or downloading millions of data points and performing some operation on them
18:27 < lsneff> there's still a concept of user agent
18:27 < fenn> in our fantastic retro-future you would have hundreds of user agents constantly running, staying on top of topics you were interested in and digesting them for later, or alerting you to things in realtime
18:28 < fenn> now it has been relegated to a string that informs a web server of what bugs it has to work around in the web client
18:29 < fenn> the web client is no longer under the user's control, instead it does what the makers of the client want the user to see
18:32 < fenn> this whole mess with the halting problem and unpredictability of code output is almost a red herring, relatively speaking
18:34 < fenn> the HTML inspector thing is great, but it wasn't intended for the user
18:34 < fenn> they have even gotten rid of user stylesheets
18:42 < lsneff> How depressing
18:47 < lsneff> The indieweb movement seems to be making some strides against that.
18:47 < lsneff> However, it seems to be associated pretty strongly with the crypto subcultures.
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19:04 < kanzure> https://jacobegner.blogspot.com/2020/11/password-strength-in-dollars.html
19:09 < L29Ah> tfw no pbkdf
19:17 < lsneff> .t https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26963131
19:17 < saxo> Is it just me or does it seems like a lot of things are headed for disaster?Th... | Hacker News
19:20  * L29Ah wears his safety duck (that cowers)
19:21  * fenn crawls under his desk
19:23 < L29Ah> can it be that humans are gradually becoming too stupid to utilize and rearrange the capital they control effectively and will destroy (through scrapping, for instance) the entire civilization after a minor social issue disables a small portion of companies?
19:24  * L29Ah stares at totalita^Wsocialist democracy states
19:25 < fenn> "According to the article, in March we imported 1.5x as many goods as in March 2019, as retailers restock inventory. Which is amazing that such increased shipping capacity exists. And because there's so much demand for shipping, shipping prices are rising. This seems... great? We're successfully restocking tons of stuff
19:26 < lsneff> Shipping prices go up so much that the vast majority of businesses can't import stock and so they go bankrupt.
19:26 < lsneff> Resulting in a small number of mega companies that have the cash.
19:29 < fenn> this is a dumb problem. they can raise their prices to reflect the increase shipping cost
19:30 < lsneff> Yes probably.
19:30 < lsneff> I'm just worried.
19:31 < gradstudentbot> Sigh, my invasive fruit flies won't have sex for me.
19:32 < lsneff> If enough events occur, than civilizational collapse is likely even if the chance per event is small.
19:32 < jrayhawk> the browser has become a thing i use to sign up for API keys
19:34 < L29Ah> yeah, we probably just need another 1e8 pandemics for a good chance at the civilizational collapse
19:35 < fenn> stop relying on probability as a magic bullet to answer all questions
19:36 < L29Ah> yes, sometimes good ol' handwaving suffices
19:36 < fenn> at least when i handwave a problem away i know it's a bullshit answer
19:36 < lsneff> Hey, i can't help that I'm anxious
19:37 < fenn> take some magnesium supplements, and if that doesn't work, smoke low-THC weed
19:37 < L29Ah> lsneff: keep calm and hodl
19:37 < L29Ah> phenibut > weed
19:38 < fenn> lsneff is supposed to be studying
19:38 < fenn> gaba-ergics make you dumb
19:38 < L29Ah> yes, and phenibut is more conductive to studing that weed
19:38 < L29Ah> gaba-ergics are wildly different
19:40 < L29Ah> i didn't try low-THC weed tho, just some random black market shit, so i can't be sure
19:40 < lsneff> it's probably just 'cause I had a bunch of sugar earlier—that seems to affect my mood
19:42 < fenn> things i've noticed that correlate with doominess: being awake past my bedtime, wheat, stress
19:45 < lsneff> Wow, that aligns exactly with modern life.
19:49 < L29Ah> as much as you make it so
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 28 00:00:39 2021