--- Log opened Mon May 10 00:00:50 2021 00:58 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:07 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:41 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:01 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wtiobfbadylzypyk] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:26 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@82-64-99-84.subs.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:29 -!- HumanG33k [~HumanG33k@82-64-99-84.subs.proxad.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:34 -!- und3rsk0r [~und3rsk0r@2a01:e34:ee40:b700:55fa:d077:e62a:3543] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:39 -!- und3rsk0r [~und3rsk0r@2a01:e34:ee40:b700:55fa:d077:e62a:3543] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:10 -!- thedragon [~thedragon@141.98.255.153] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:23 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxpdyifwwjxiayjl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:39 -!- pompolic [~A@unaffiliated/pompolic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24 -!- thedragon [~thedragon@141.98.255.143] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:46 < L29Ah> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suHOLFhbwsM who wanted jetpacks? 07:48 < fenn> .title 07:48 < saxo> Royal Marines Jet Suit Boarding Ex 08:24 < lsneff> fenn: been thinking about electrowetting a bit more and I've determined that optoelectrowetting is the way to go with a dlp projector through an lcd panel. 08:25 < lsneff> There may be ways to get the right coatings more simply than it currently seems. 08:26 < fenn> why both? 08:31 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:54 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-86-49-37-93.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:26 -!- Jayson_Virissimo [~Jayson@ip98-165-142-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:04 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:10 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wtiobfbadylzypyk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:27 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:07 < lsneff> both? 12:09 < fenn> why both a projector and an lcd 12:09 < fenn> you said "a dlp projector through an lcd panel" but i'm not sure what that means 12:14 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-anxahjvnnvmfoxsw] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:31 < TMA> fenn: I think I have read about 3D printing from light cured resin... DLP was the light source, LCD was for masking 14:24 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:36 < lsneff> that's exactly what I was referring to 14:37 < lsneff> to get the droplet velocity up, you'd want a light much brighter than an lcd can produce 14:52 < fenn> jsut use a lamp then 14:52 < fenn> anyway i think the velocity is proportional to applied bias voltage, not light intensity 15:04 < nmz787> LCDs don't produce light 15:07 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-86-49-37-93.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-103-186-103.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 15:18 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-103-186-103.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41 -!- Jay_Dugger [~jwd@47.185.203.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42 < fenn> i've seen various DIY HD projectors that use large LCD panels with mercury arc lamps to get a sharp point source light 15:42 < fenn> you need to cool the panel with a fan 15:43 < fenn> LED light sources have more optical extent and thus the pixels are blurrier 15:43 < fenn> for this application you don't care about the color so you could use a laser instead 15:49 < nmz787> with galvos maybe? 15:50 < fenn> for illuminating the LCD. lasers are the most point-like light source you can get 15:52 < nmz787> oh, I meant without an LCD 15:52 < nmz787> if you have galvos to steer, why even use it... unless you want truly parallel operation 15:52 < nmz787> for parallel ops with a laser though, you'd need a beam expander 15:53 < nmz787> and possibly a pretty decent output power 15:54 < fenn> because galvos suck and don't scale well to millions of points 15:55 < fenn> i think a fresnel lens to focus the LCD would work fine 15:55 < fenn> like an overhead projector teachers used to use 15:57 < fenn> if 50% of the pixels are black you're only wasting half the power 15:58 < nmz787> what do you mean they don't scale to millions of points, aren't there a bunch of commercial galvo-based 3d resin printers? 15:58 < nmz787> and maybe video projectors too? 15:58 < fenn> we want to move droplets around quickly, not wait minutes for the image to resolve 15:58 < nmz787> as well as cutters 15:59 < fenn> also i'm not sure what happens when you turn the electric field on and off instead of keeping it constant. maybe the droplet gets disturbed somehow 15:59 < fenn> don't anger the droplets! 16:00 < nmz787> I guess I'm a little out of the loop, I was assuming the photons did photoelectric effect stuff 16:00 < nmz787> converting to electrons, to get around not just building an electrode array 16:00 < nmz787> (which isn't really that hard) 16:00 < fenn> that was my first thought, but actually if you read carefully they are using light dependent resistors 16:00 < nmz787> like, Ben Krasnow and that Canadian guy have been working it out on youtube 16:01 < nmz787> (thoughtemporium) justin something? 16:01 < fenn> i can see merits to both approaches 16:02 < fenn> with bias voltage and resistors i guess you'd get a sort of ghosting/bloom artifact in the electric field strength from other pixels in the row 16:02 < gradstudentbot> The paper was rejected. 16:02 < fenn> but photovoltaics will only give a few volts at most 16:03 < nmz787> lsneff: I thought you were a programmer... are you switching gears to lab stuff? 16:03 < fenn> so yeah i guess if you're limited to one pixel per row you might as well do a raster scanning approach 16:04 < fenn> there are probably ways around it like adding extra bright pixels at the end of the row just to balance out the resistance 16:04 < fenn> and maybe it doesn't matter at all 16:05 < nmz787> resistors were for adding parasitics? like slowly draining the charge ? 16:05 < nmz787> I didn't read whatever links have been posted lately 16:05 < fenn> the way it works in the paper by park (SCOEW) is you have two metal electrode strips running along the edges of a glass plate with amorphous silicon sputtered(?) on it 16:06 < fenn> the silicon acts like a resistor and there's a constant voltage drop across it due to the supplied current 16:06 < fenn> when you shine a light on the silicon it acts more like a conductor or insulator, i forget which, and there is a kink in the electric field around that spot 16:07 < fenn> that electric field gradient causes the wetting angle to change 16:07 < fenn> more electric field gradient = more change = more force available to move droplets around with 16:08 < fenn> so you want sharp pixels, not blurry pixels, and you probably want more voltage than less 16:08 < nmz787> native silicon is pretty much an insulator, if you add charge, it will bleed off slowly 16:10 < nmz787> this is why charged particle beam imaging usually needs a conductive layer applied for good imaging (or working in a low pressure moist environment, where water gas can act as a charge carrier) 16:10 < fenn> well this was "hydrogenated amorphous si" which may act differently 16:11 < nmz787> hydrogenated sounds like a surface treatment, though I could be wrong 16:11 < nmz787> bioscience loves some hydroxyls on their silicon surfaces for surface tension modification 16:24 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@c-73-147-55-120.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:43 -!- Codaraxis_ [~Codaraxis@ip68-5-90-227.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:47 -!- Codaraxis [Codaraxis@gateway/vpn/mullvad/codaraxis] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:25 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@c-73-147-55-120.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:01 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/6TGGrVPJ7Pw?t=8m50s 20:01 < saxo> 3D-Printing Titanium | How hard can it be? - YouTube 20:01 < fenn> slowmo high power galvo laser 20:03 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@unaffiliated/mrdata] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:04 < fenn> seems like a vacuum chamber would be a lot less work than all the filtering argon and titanium smoke 20:20 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yxpdyifwwjxiayjl] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:28 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:33 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:26 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48 < lsneff> nmz787: I am merely a programmer by experience, but I find this sort of thing interesting. 22:49 < lsneff> my education is more lab stuff, not in comp sci 23:18 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined ##hplusroadmap 23:51 -!- Jayson_Virissimo [~Jayson@ip98-165-142-10.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] --- Log closed Tue May 11 00:00:51 2021