--- Log opened Tue May 18 00:00:58 2021
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08:58 < kanzure> http://www.erisian.com.au/wordpress/2021/05/18/sturm-und-drang-und-taproot-activation
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10:23 < maaku> kanzure: aj disengenously misinterprets my position, and cites as evidence a tweet in which I accuse him of disengenously misinterpreting my position
10:24 < maaku> As I say in that tweet, this has gotten farcical.
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11:42 < maaku> kanzure: aj's not trying very hard to write down a correct and unbiased history. i wouldn't promulgate that link
12:24 < jrayhawk> where can i find a better one?
12:25 < jrayhawk> a better write-up, that is
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12:44 < maaku> what aspect of it are you interested in, specifically?
12:45 < maaku> seeing as this all happened a few weeks ago, I don't think there are any other writeups
12:46 < maaku> but you can gleen some summary of it from the bitcoin opstech newsletter updates which are fair and unbiased, as well as the mailing list summaries of the meeting logs
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13:09 < jrayhawk> i am a bit curious to hear luke's position steelmanned since he's generally a high-integrity contrarian and is unusually inarticulate on this particular subject
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16:22 < kanzure> https://medium.com/@danrobinson/ethereum-is-a-dark-forest-ecc5f0505dff
17:04 < fenn> this isn't the gritty cyberpunk future i wanted: http://twitter.com/PCMohanMP/status/1388113387897245700
17:04 < fenn> .tw
17:04 < saxo> A special task force headed by PC Mohan - MP, Bengaluru Central, has roped Garuda Aerospace to sanitize Govt hospitals and other public buildings in Bengaluru Central area. CM Shri @BSYBJP flagged off a fleet of drones spraying anti-coronavirus disinfectant. #DronesAgainstCovid https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ORwVdVEAc7-7t.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ORwV4UYAMJhRP.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ORwV7VIAAwb00.jpg https://pbs.t
17:04 < fenn> apparently they haven't gotten the message about aerosol transmission
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17:40 < mrdata> yeah potentially the drones could kick up aerosols and worsen the problem
17:40 < mrdata> this plan might have little effect
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18:57 < fenn> nah i'm just pointing out how it's useless
18:58 < fenn> in response to gasoline hoarders after a ransomware cyberattack knocked out gasoline distribution in eastern US, energy secretary Granholm warned gas station owners: "We will have no tolerance for price gouging."
18:58 < fenn> but, uh, isn't price gouging exactly the right way to curb shortages caused by hoarders?
18:58 < kanzure> yes
18:58 < kanzure> so i was looking into that
18:58 < kanzure> and it turns out one way around price gouging laws is to setup auctions
18:59 < kanzure> auctions are not considered price gouging
19:01 < kanzure> only trouble is that it is hard to convert a storefront into an online auction and not many people know how to do that (having an item on a shelf is a hard way to start an auction if people aren't bidding on the same good/service all at once)
19:01 < kanzure> for me this was in the context of the texas power outage and i started wondering how to actually buy water or toilet paper when there are shortages, not gas, but still.
19:01 < kanzure> looked at ebay, but it turns out that ebay does not have local search or local auctions
19:02 < fenn> they do have "search by distance" and a "local pickup only" delivery option
19:02 < fenn> it's not used very often by sellers tho
19:02 < gradstudentbot> Let's have a pset party.
19:02 < fenn> ebay being ebay, there's no way to filter local pickup only into or out of your search results, so i guess ebay discourages it
19:02 < kanzure> i can see why they might not want to focus on "local auctions" for their business model- makes sense, shipping is better, wider market... not like all the collectors for your garbage are all in a 10 mile radius, they ain't.
19:04 < fenn> i see a lot of metalworking machinery as "pickup only" because it's more than the cost of the machine to ship it cross country
19:06 < fenn> i guess i just don't see a problem with price increases in response to a shortage if it's the original sellers and not a shortage caused by a speculation bubble
19:07 < fenn> like, some people went around buying up all the toilet paper and hand sanitizer and then there was a shortage
19:07 < fenn> but it's not like you can go around and buy out all the gasoline and resell it
19:16 < kanzure> yes, prices need to reflect real market realities
19:22 < fenn> well essentially granholm's edict is short circuiting the feedback model which is the entire premise of the goods-for-money system
19:22 < kanzure> how does r/collapse and eleitl reconcile the pandemic with the absence of total societal collapse?
19:23 < fenn> lol they are probably celebrating because gasoline use is down
19:23 < kanzure> hm
19:23 < kanzure> i haven't checked on them so who knows
19:24 < fenn> if anything the pandemic has made me more nervous because it clearly shows that everybody is a total fucking idiot and there are no adults in charge
19:25 < kanzure> you already knew that
19:25 < fenn> i had a hope
19:25 < jrayhawk> price gouging encourages speculation bubbles
19:25 < fenn> jrayhawk: how about just "no reselling"
19:29 < jrayhawk> yeah, once the free market fails due to a lack of price competition, central planning becomes plausibly more efficient, but it's got its own problems
19:30 < fenn> the WHO finally admitted a year later that covid is transmitted by aerosols "but continued to insist that mask use indoors was not necessary if people could remain separated by [one] meter"
19:30 < fenn> "the C.D.C. did not really accept aerosol transmission until October"
19:31 < fenn> this despite the scientific literature clearly showing aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV over 60 meters published in 2004
19:32 < fenn> oh but it's not "SARS-2" it's "something something coronavirus disease number number"
19:32 < kanzure> who are the adults?
19:33 < kanzure> is it that they are not in charge, or that they are entirely missing
19:34 < jrayhawk> the adults are too busy internalizing authority while externalizing accountability to give useful advice
19:34 < fenn> high functioning autistic people i guess
19:35 < kanzure> anyone in particular you can name?
19:35 < fenn> the problem is you get gish-galloped by the world with insanity after insanity and it is hard to figure out where to start
19:36 < jrayhawk> we also knew about glutathione, zinc, and vitamin d from studies on SARS Original Flavor before any of this nonsense started
19:36 < fenn> tasty
19:37 < jrayhawk> but vaccines are far more appealing because you can externalize accountability using big pharma companies
19:37 < jrayhawk> they have the money to eat accountability for you
19:38 < fenn> rex kerr has a consistently deliberate and thoughtful approach to disagreements and counter-intuitive situations, but he is a very rare breed
19:39 < fenn> michael baylor (space reporter) has never been wrong, as far as i can tell
19:39 < kanzure> https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/05/30/2746/its-fiction-but-america-just-got-wiped-out-by-a-man-made-terror-germ/
19:41 < jrayhawk> the people who rise to the top of multi-billion-dollar prestige vortexes like the WHO and CDC are the ones best at avoiding fallout for inevitable bad outcomes that occur in the viscinity of any multi-billion-dollar endeavour
19:41 < kanzure> "... That was undoubtedly the case the last time Congress approved a national vaccination program in 1976 for swine flu, when 45 million Americans were inoculated. For several months, four drug firms — Merck’s Sharp & Dohme, Merrell, Wyeth, and Parke-Davis — refused to sell to the government the 100 million doses they had manufactured until they got full liability indemnity and a ...
19:41 < kanzure> ...guaranteed profit."
19:42 < kanzure> "While the four pharmaceutical companies got millions, the Department of Justice ultimately had to assign 10 attorneys to defend full time more than 4,000 legal claims for damages from Guillain-Barré, a rare but serious disorder in which the immune system assaults healthy nerve cells. Taxpayer-funded settlements and judgments eventually topped $100 million."
19:42 < kanzure> from https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/opinion/contributors/pharma-vaccines.html
19:42 < kanzure> so they externalized accountability but not really
19:43 < gradstudentbot> I am kind of curious what he has a Ph.D. in, I can't really find this anywhere, it could be underwater basket weaving for all I know.
19:45 < jrayhawk> accountability-dispersion social technologies have improved since then
19:46 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_You_for_Smoking (this was apparently a musk/thiel production)
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20:24 < fenn> 'the 21st Century Cures Act allows researchers to waive the requirement for "informed consent" in cases where clinical testing of drugs or devices "poses no more than minimal risk"'
20:24 < fenn> uh huh
20:24 < fenn> pretty sure that's against the geneva convention
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21:04 < jrayhawk> in some cases the "minimal risk" as defined by standard of care is horrifying enough that it's hard to do worse
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23:24 < maaku> kanzure: isn't having literally thousands of non-affiliated gas stations setting their own prices an auction, so long as product is clearing?
23:26 < maaku> fenn: re: "everybody is a total fucking idiot and there are no adults in charge"  <-- congratulations, the last of your childhood innocence is gone
23:27 < maaku> the world is a sick, cruel place run by sadistic children. we're living inside Lord of the Flies
23:27  * fenn gives himself a gold star
--- Log closed Wed May 19 00:00:59 2021