--- Log opened Thu Jul 01 00:00:53 2021
00:23 < Urchin[emacs]> fenn: that doesn't help understanding the actual problems faced
00:24 < Urchin[emacs]> closest thing for modern conflicts that come to mind are some of the expansions for Command: Modern Air / Naval Operations
00:47 < fenn> huh. they have a "professional edition" designed as a serious analysis and wargaming tool
00:50 < fenn> Sensor type Mk1 Eyeball
00:50 < fenn> those are rookie eyeballs
00:58 < fenn> they do have a satellite demo but it looks like they're stuck to the surface of the globe
00:58 < fenn> this game would be greatly improved by just having a small picture of each military unit when you click on it
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05:16 < lsneff> femm: https://childrenofadeadearth.com/
05:16 < lsneff> *fenn
05:18 < fenn> yep
05:18 < fenn> not really relevant to the concerns in the paper
05:19 < fenn> it's just boring old satellite stuff
06:16 < lsneff> right
06:28 < lsneff> been doing some fun stuff with coap and dtls recently
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08:54 < L29Ah> you're children of a dead planet, earthdeirdre, and this death we do not comprehend; will we too catch the planetdeath disease?
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10:07 < jrayhawk> .title https://www.ivfbabble.com/on-the-40th-anniversary-of-the-first-ivf-in-the-usa-the-first-baby-elizabeth-jordan-carr-looks-at-how-science-today-has-produced-a-new-world-first-baby-aurea/
10:07 < saxo> Breaking News. The first baby in history to be conceived with the help of polygenic testing - IVF Babble
10:08 < jrayhawk> screening is such a stupidly wasteful and expensive process when we have the means to do gene editing
10:09 < streety> less controversial though - politically easy and technically difficult wins
10:17 < L29Ah> like mutation breeding vs GMO
10:26 < jrayhawk> this should be a no-brainer, politically; to the dehierarchicalist care-and-equality crowd, lowering the barriers to entry on generational advancement and anti-disease technology is, if anything, removing advantages from the rich, and the pro-establishment pro-natalist crowd should be eager to take whatever opportunities they can to increase the percentage of completed pregnancies
10:28 < jrayhawk> and both sides should be inclined to disregard the protectionism of professional bioethicists for different reasons
11:41 < nmz787> jrayhawk: but the counterargument is, the tech is so expensive, that the rich will be the first to get it anyway, so they'll get even further ahead in the meantime 
11:42 < nmz787> and at the same time, if you offered it to poor folks, there'd probably be reaction that you're trying to control the poor and make them into even more cattle-like peasantry
11:45 < jrayhawk> they're already pulling ahead more without it
11:56 < nmz787> yeah, but, I guess they could pull ahead even more exponentially! (or so the critics I've talked to seem to convey)
12:31 < L29Ah> https://twitter.com/CrabbBrendan/status/1410527903394136067
12:44 < maaku> fenn: kerbal space program?
13:20 < fenn> not competitive, and spacecraft don't collide unless you match orbits nearly exactly
13:20 < fenn> KSP does convey a lot of basic concepts and intuitions about orbital mechanics though
13:20 < fenn> i guess there could be a mod for this sort of thing...
13:21 < fenn> i feel that KSP is way too focused on the actual launch, compared to its relevance in geopolitical power struggles (barring orders of magnitude reductions in launch costs)
13:22 < fenn> <cue rant about government waste and cost disease>
13:25 < maaku> KSP could be a lot better if it allowed you to automate aspects of launch and mission management once you demonstrate success
13:26 < maaku> e.g. once you achieve rendevous, you unlock the "auto-rendevous" mode
13:26 < fenn> yeah there are mods of course. mechjeb and various delta-V management tools
13:27 < fenn> i haven't really played enough to know what's out there
13:27 < maaku> then potentially the player could move on to managing asteroid mining and planetary colonization programs with dozens of launches without having to micromanage everything
13:27 < fenn> i think that's the general idea with KSP2
13:27 < maaku> but then I've only played a few sessions, so maybe it has this and I just don't know it
13:28 < maaku> KSP2 is the new Half-Life 3
13:28 < fenn> KSP Forever
13:29 < fenn> "but maaku, that would convey the message of peace and hope for humanity, and i want a wargame sim"
13:30 < fenn> (i don't, for the record)
16:30 < fenn> .title http://youtu.be/sTA0GTgFn5E big metal things going up at the launch pad today
16:30 < saxo> Sorry, links cannot contain spaces
16:30 < fenn> .title
16:30 < saxo> Nerdle Cam 4K-  SpaceX Starship Launch Facility - YouTube
16:41 < Urchin[emacs]> fenn: what do you think of the High Frontier boardgame?
16:45 < fenn> i haven't played it, but the game board has a lot of interesting things on it
16:48 < L29Ah> why people are so obsessed with mars as the new human frontier?
16:49 < L29Ah> the major asteroids of the belt make more sense imo due to being much ΔV-cheaper and metal-rich
17:14 < superkuh> Colonizing space would be better. But of the gravity wells available Mars at least has water, nitrogen, and all the stuff (except enough gravity).
17:17 < L29Ah> gravity is a liability
17:21 < superkuh> I agree.
17:21 < superkuh> But $$$ thinks about land.
17:23 < fenn> because of all the stuff
17:24 < fenn> for a belt economy you need to wait years for trade routes to become established. it's a much more difficult bootstrapping problem
17:24 < fenn> mars can provide all the basic stuff to get the belt up and running at a much cheaper launch budget than earth
17:26 < fenn> also we have barely scratched the surface on figuring out how to do anything at all in zero-g
17:26 < fenn> most technology can be relatively easily ported to mars
17:33 < L29Ah> humans have spent decades on orbit doing stuff at 0g
17:33 < L29Ah> and it's an opportunity as much as a problem
17:33 < fenn> and accomplished precious little. did you see the recent EVA shenanigans?
17:33 < fenn> they spend like 40% of their time adjusting foot restraints
17:34 < L29Ah> moreover centrifuges are always at your disposal when you need those g-s
17:34 < fenn> no, they aren't
17:35 < fenn> just scooping up a cup of dirt from an asteroid was a major win
17:35 < fenn> involving gas jets and filtered sample containers with flap valves
17:39 < fenn> https://www.asteroidmission.org/?attachment_id=1699#main The Touch-And-Go Sample Acquisition Mechanism (TAGSAM)
17:39 < fenn> is an elegantly simple sampler head with an articulated arm. Once the sampler head makes contact with the surface of Bennu, a burst of pure nitrogen gas will push surface regolith into the sampler’s chamber. TAGSAM has three separate bottles of gas, which allows up to three sampling attempts. Although TAGSAM is a new technology, vacuum and micro-g tests of the TAGSAM sampler head have proven
17:39 < fenn> its ability to collect more than required 60 grams of sample.
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22:11 < maaku> L29Ah: building a second stable biosphere is a different project from building rotating metal & rock habs out of asteroids
22:12 < maaku> one is not better than the other. they're just not comparable. different goals.
--- Log closed Fri Jul 02 00:00:54 2021