--- Log opened Wed Oct 27 00:00:15 2021
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07:23 < kanzure> lsneff: not at the moment. traveling.
07:59 < lsneff> I only ask because you said “hmph” right after
08:00 < lsneff> doesn’t matter, the discussion isn’t worth having
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11:17 < nmz787> kanzure: oops only a week late seeing your reminder about gp-write
11:17 < nmz787> kanzure: yashgaroth: did either of you attend? anything useful?
11:17 < nmz787> did the lawsuit against ginkgo come up :P
11:18 < yashgaroth> nah I was working mostly
11:18 < yashgaroth> I like how the whole lawsuit/short was just some wall st guy realizing what a scam ginkgo is from public info
12:10 < kanzure> elaborate
12:10 < kanzure> i didn't see this
12:12 < kanzure> lsneff: i'd like to work it out with maaku on that topic at some point, i think that would be mutually valuable.
12:19 < yashgaroth> turns out that almost all of those hundreds of millions of $ that ginkgo kept raising was then being "invested" into shell companies, often founded by senior members of ginkgo or their friends, and those startups would then use that "investment" to buy "services" from ginkgo, thus changing ginkgo's apparent "revenue" from zero to many millions of $
12:20 < yashgaroth> and some wall st short guy realized that and got big mad and tried to short and then tank the stock...he did something similar to berkeley lights a while back
12:20 < yashgaroth> he also realized that ginkgo doesn't have any magic secret sauce compared to any other company in the space, and that they really haven't done anything magical or even above average vs any other contract research org in their entire existence
12:20 < yashgaroth> (aside from marketing and buzzwords, of course)
12:22 < yashgaroth> then bubble investor kathie wood publicly bought a bunch more ginkgo stock to counter this short guy, and various investors got into slap fights, and then 400,000 law firms are all filing a suit against ginkgo
12:25 < kanzure> oh interesting. does ginkgo have a good product/service?
12:27 < yashgaroth> nah, anyone with enough capital could get a bunch of high-throughput lab machines and compete with them directly, i.e. make yeast produce a low-value chemical at stunningly low yields
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12:31 < yashgaroth> zymergen is an example of basically the same company, except without the ted-talkification, and their stock dropped 80% last year when people realized they weren't gonna make money...which is what ginkgo's should've done, except for their creative accounting as described above, and their meme-stockiness
12:31 < yashgaroth> the economy is stupider than usual right now
12:43 < kanzure> they need to add genetic edit feedback or artificial selection https://www.culturebiosciences.com/
12:58 < yashgaroth> I mean there's plenty of that already, it's just hard to convince yeast to make some chemical better than existing methods can
13:00 < yashgaroth> you remember the hype around yeast producing THC and everyone jerking off about growing weed chemical at home, but it was like 50ug/L max and fuck purifying that
13:02 < yashgaroth> for making a recombinant protein that costs $100/ug sure it's worth the hassle, but there are very few small molecules that can both be made in yeast, and compete with existing natural or synthetic processes
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14:29 < fenn> why is the yield so low?
14:30 < fenn> it is indeed stunningly low yield
14:53 < superkuh> Non-optimal yeast promoter? etc.
15:11 < yashgaroth> oh they've optimized the promoters plenty, but if it takes 20 enzymes to go from a molecule native to yeast to the final target, and each of those reactions consumes some other bit that yeast aren't used to giving up, and each enzyme can interact with the entire proteome of the yeast, and even overexpressing one enzyme can fuck a yeast's metabolism compared to its lazy neighbor yeast that dropped the transgenes...
15:13 < yashgaroth> versus a plant that's spent millions of years optimizing for a secondary metabolite, then thousands more being selected by humans...or a chemical process that just takes heat and some precursors that're probably waste product from petroleum refining
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18:23 < fenn> .title https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02895-8
18:23 < saxo> Giant, free index to world’s research papers released online
18:24 < fenn> https://archive.org/details/GeneralIndex
18:24 < fenn> "The General Index consists of a listing of n-grams, from unigrams to five-grams, extracted from 107 million journal articles. 
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--- Log closed Thu Oct 28 00:00:16 2021