--- Log opened Sat Nov 13 00:00:31 2021
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05:35 < muurkha> it's not a good time for charismatic founders named Elizabeth to get funding for groundbreaking health startups that do blood testing
05:38 < muurkha> maaku: I'd be interested in reading whatever part of them you don't consider confidential
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10:55 < fltrz_> is big red dog Clifford a communist story?
10:56 < fltrz_> where is big blue cat in Moscow story?
10:58 < fltrz_> the more you love it the bigger it becomes
11:17 < kanzure> fltrz_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE4tEkUqPrk&t=3m4s
11:42 < fenn> .title
11:42 < saxo> Libertarian PBS - YouTube
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16:00 < fltrz_> friends of mine have a cat called "blub": it was found by one of their relatives (a family), they were walking along water and found a floating cardboard box that started sinking, and heard meow's, saved the kitten before the box sank. They called it "blub" because thats the sound of air bubbles escaping water. They took it in, but already had a dog, in a relatively small apartment. The kitten took 
16:00 < fltrz_> over a lot of the dogs behavior. It wags its tail like a dog, and behaves somewhere between a cat and a dog. Then the couple I know took over the cat from that family. I've seen the cat a lot, and also watched over it for a week or so when they traveled a few years ago. It also hunts insects mid-air, it looks at say a mosquito and claps its front paws mid-air and often succeeds. Weird cat
16:01 < fltrz_> HN breeder equation nonsense all over again
16:03 < fltrz_> breeders equation assumes that however traits manifest as figures of merit, i.e. how they *map* must be linear. i.e. if its correct for linear height measurements it can't be correct for logarithms of linear height measurements, and vice versa.
16:03 < muurkha> do you call the cat "Java"?
16:04 < fltrz_> the name is "Blub", i don't get the association with Java?
16:04 < muurkha> http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html
16:15 < fltrz_> not sure how what word is used in English to denote rising air bubbles in water? is it also "blub"?
16:15 < fltrz_> onomatopeia
16:15 < muurkha> that's an excellent point about nominal, ordinal, interval, and ratio levels of measurement
16:16 < muurkha> I don't think there's a single word for that specific phenomenon.  usually they're called "bubbles".  they are not called "blubs".
16:17 < muurkha> "bubble" of course includes bubbles that are not rising, not air, and not in water
16:18 < fltrz_> yes I know they are called bubbles, but how would you denote the sound it makes? like "ah choo" when sneezing differs across languages, or "ouch" vs "auw!" it dutch
16:19 < muurkha> oh, yes, "blub" is a common word for the sound.  "glub" is another
16:19 < fltrz_> and no the cat can't be programmed, so yeah less powerful than Lisp
16:21 < muurkha> and sometimes "glug"
16:21 < muurkha> less?  or perhaps more!
16:23 < fltrz_> in that page, I think part of the reason so few people would know about this macro functionality in lisp is because its different from macro's in other languages. its not surprising that few programmers consider experimenting with these Lisp macro's if they think its just like C macro's but for Lisp
16:24 < muurkha> you may also be interested in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linguistic_onomatopoeias#Balloon_or_bubble_bursting
16:27 < fltrz_> great page, but that one gives poof etc, which is more for solid membrane bubbles
16:27 < muurkha> yeah
16:27 < muurkha> I think also in a lot of cases the drawbacks of macro-heavy code outweigh their advantages
16:29 < muurkha> that is, I think Paul is sort of wrong about what power is in a computer language.  I elaborated more on that in http://www.paulgraham.com/redund.html
16:31 < muurkha> I like succinctness a lot though
16:32 < muurkha> I recently had a dismaying epiphany that succinctness isn't actually buying me as much power as I thought it was: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28660097
16:32 < muurkha> .t
16:32 < saxo> Brooks wrote 'No Silver Bullet' in 01987. The examples of high-level languages h... | Hacker News
16:34 < fltrz_> blub is also associated with fish I guess, but theres no fish sound onomatopeias
16:35 < muurkha> I don't think fish actually make "blub" sounds though.  maybe when they fart?
16:40 < fltrz_> the air bubble when they breathe out
16:40 < fltrz_> especially gold fish in cartoons
16:44 < fltrz_> its kind of surprising theres so little selective pressure on cells to be able to write sequences for the purpouse of cellullar memory
16:49 < fltrz_> I ate half a pikachu yesterday
18:44 < kanzure> used to do this back in school nobody noticed https://blog.longnow.org/02013/12/31/long-now-years-five-digit-dates-and-10k-compliance-at-home/
18:46 < kanzure> fltrz_: how about methylation?
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19:57 < fltrz_> kanzure: you mean dna methylation? that would confound memory with functionality. imagine a cell could write a long long diary for episodic memory, and that it could consult it. you dont want to write your diary on your hereditary genome
19:59 < fltrz_> for *minimal* hereditary memory effects closely related to specific parts of gene regulatory networks, thats works out fine, but any more complicated pieces of data you don't want to store on such a limited storage
20:02 < fltrz_> so either 1) there are cells that have it 2) there are no cells that have it. if 1) its not discovered yet, or at least such a discovery hasn't reached popular awareness or recognition. if 2) then either A) there is no selective pressure (its a dumb idea that cells might benefit from memories adress-decoupled from the GRN) or B) it would be advantageous, but natural selection hasn't achieved that 
20:02 < fltrz_> point yet on a cellullar level
20:06 < fltrz_> even if cells had such a mechanism of being able to write arbitrary sequences in a type of polymer (not just duplicate and snip out stuff), I am surprised that apparently there is no selective pressure towards mathematical knowledge at a cellullar level: theorems and proofs. humans benefit tremendously from learning how proofs work, substituting formulas...
20:07 < fltrz_> if synthetic biology truly takes off, what prevents a fanatic from empowering single cells with random access memory, and a synthetic circuit GRN that implements something like metamath, and uploads set.mm in its memory
20:08 < fltrz_> would we be able to survive the escape of such intelligent cells?
20:08 < superkuh> aka Greg Bear's "Blood Music".
20:11 < fltrz_> yeah from wikipedia synopsis, quite similar
20:13 < fltrz_> but its a legit question. why did natural selection not make this happen already? or are we really early? it was easier to go multicellullar and delegate and specialize?
20:13 < fltrz_> or does it happen in the long run, and its the great filter?
20:15 < fltrz_> the tacit assumption only humans or embrained multicellullar organisms benefit from math sounds a lot like colonialist apologetism: higher education is for the upper class, and giving it to the lower classes was supposedly useless
20:16 < fltrz_> its a dangerous assumption to make if someday someone proves that assumption wrong
20:18 < fltrz_> immune systems look a lot like medieval security: stamping a ring in hot wax for shape verification, indentured paperwork, ... with math cells could sign and verify authenticity
20:20 < fltrz_> the idea of cryptographically secure immune systems practically means that members of advanced civilizations sooner or later consider equipping cells with math
20:21 < fltrz_> "authenticate or die"
20:32 < fltrz_> does anyone know a microcontroller or ADC with more than 50 channels? I have a PIC with 50 channels, but the parametric search doesn't really help me find if they released 50+channel ADC's...
20:33 < fltrz_> kind of wish that I bought a bunch of them after receiving the 2 samples...
20:42 < fltrz_> I'm thinking after the kanerva paper on average electrode referenced, 100 level quantized EEG, I should try out 100 channel EEG with these chips...
--- Log closed Sun Nov 14 00:00:32 2021