--- Log opened Mon Dec 27 00:00:12 2021
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09:08 < bbrittain> wowow, it's been a long time since I've been here
09:09 < bbrittain> .t https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj1587
09:09 < saxo> AAAS
09:11 < bbrittain> .help
09:11 < bbrittain> kanzure: how do I get your lovely bot to give me a paper link :)
09:11 < superkuh> http://sci-hub.se/https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abj1587
09:12 < bbrittain> yeah, it's not on sci-hub
09:12 < superkuh> Then you're borked.
09:12 < bbrittain> uggh, there used to be a bot that used university credentials in here
09:12 < superkuh> paperbot hasn't been around for a long time.
09:12 < bbrittain> sadness
09:12 < bbrittain> I miss paperbot
09:13 < bbrittain> I've gone deep down a geoengineering rabbit hole
09:14 < bbrittain> and I'm incensed that everything about climate isn't published open access
09:14 < bbrittain> especially since the keith group is like, the name in geoengineering policy
09:15 < superkuh> Olivine weathering? Iron dust fertilization? Millions of mass manufactured remote pop-able mylar super pressure balloons to reflect the sun?
09:16 < bbrittain> been mostly looking at the much more mundane marine cloud brightening research
09:16 < bbrittain> not as high of leverage of a technique
09:16 < bbrittain> but somewhat localized
09:16 < bbrittain> and not that difficult
09:16 < bbrittain> and rather effective
09:18 < superkuh> That's a new one to me. Neat.
09:18 < bbrittain> yeah, basically change the albedo of clouds with some salt
09:19 < superkuh> Just tangential, I'm reading Neal Stephenson's new book (oct 2021) Termination Shock which is all about near/medium term geoengineering in plot. After the first half it's pretty good.
09:19 < bbrittain> it's next on my list of books to read!
09:20 < bbrittain> Currently reading Ministry for the Future
09:20 < superkuh> Uhg.
09:20 < superkuh> I didn't finish ministry of the future. It was too depressing.
09:20 < bbrittain> I keep texting the friend who told me I needed to read it with "god damn this is bleak"
09:21 < bbrittain> big KSR fan though, Red Mars is one of my favorite series
09:21 < superkuh> Same.
09:22 < bbrittain> I've basically decided to quit my job recently and been trying to figure out if there is anything I can do in the climate space that'd be at all helpful
09:22 < bbrittain> but I keep getting sucked down the geoengineering rabbit hole
09:22 < bbrittain> because I can't figure out _why we aren't doing it yet_
09:23 < bbrittain> everything is broken, maybe we should be using the quick fix to buy us some more time so that we can actually fix stuff
09:36 < kanzure> bbrittain: unfortunately paperbot is out of service at the moment. welcome back!
09:36 < bbrittain> hihi :)
09:37 < kanzure> bbrittain: what about solar shades instead https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/space/Self-deployed%20extremely%20large%20low%20mass%20space%20structures%20-%202007.pdf
09:39 < bbrittain> the part of me that also wants to live next to a dyson sphere likes that idea
09:40 < kanzure> bbrittain: people lack imagination and they think politics ("climate change deals") is the answer because it's politically offensive to think that non-political solutions exist https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27663968
09:42 < bbrittain> Climate change deals might be part of how we don't die in the long run
09:43 < bbrittain> solar geoengineering doesn't address things like ocean acidification
09:43 < bbrittain> or air quality
09:43 < bbrittain> yada yada
09:43 < bbrittain> but it might let us live long enough to solve those problems :)
09:45 < docl> one idea I like is build up some artificial glaciers to absurd heights in greenland and/or antarctica... then use them for space launchers :)
09:46 < docl> also as CO2 cold traps
09:46 < bbrittain> we need to be able to pump liquid to those heights using exclusively non-carbon outputing technology though
09:46 < bbrittain> which I don't think we can do yet? maybe?
09:47 < docl> what if we just put some tall shades on the sun facing side? you get really long shadows that close to the poles
09:48 < docl> maybe blocking some of the airflow is also needed to avoid too much thermal exchange from the ocean
09:49 < docl> the ice should grow by condensing water out of the air
09:49 < kanzure> geodesic dome
09:50 < docl> you could also maybe put walls of pykrete to prevent the ice from flowing (since plant fiber has some give to it)
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09:54 < bbrittain> I'm reading this right now: https://geoengineering.environment.harvard.edu/files/sgrp/files/irvine-etal-solar-geo-research-priorities-eartharxiv.pdf?m=1620412642
09:55 < bbrittain> people in this field are surprisingly pesimistic about their research
09:55 < bbrittain> not the usual academia hype
10:19 < bbrittain> ok, this is absurd. I can't access that paper even through my libraries Science access portal
10:31 < docl> if you're interested in space based solar you might check last week's logs... muurkha did some analysis and apparently 50kW/kg is reasonably possible
10:32 < docl> his writeup is at http://canonical.org/~kragen/dernocua.git
10:34 < docl> kind of looks like photovoltaic using thin film multilayer like CIGS might be even better
10:35 < docl> 1kW/kg would be pretty stellar by current standards (that's a typical figure in space based solar power proposals)
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 28 00:00:13 2021