--- Log opened Wed Feb 09 00:00:54 2022
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00:29 < maaku> lsneff: don't work for blue origin! friends don't let friends work for jeff bezos companies
00:30 < maaku> toxic culture, inept management
00:30 < maaku> but by all means do the talk. great networking opportunity and exposure
00:33 < maaku> also, go Team Space!
00:40 < fenn> this flexure based lathe looks familiar, i wonder if i saw it before or it's just coincidental convergent design http://web.mit.edu/mact/www/Projects/Classes/272/272Index.html
00:43 < fenn> what does "ransomare" have to do with PDF fingerprinting? that's a total non-sequitur
00:46 < fenn> it's a stretch to call it a "pro embryo modification bill" since it's supposed to be about abortion, they just happened to use abstract enough language that some sort of lofty principle happened on accident
00:48 < fenn> amazon pays a lot at least
00:48 < fenn> for coders
00:48 < fenn> BO generally sucks though
01:08 < maaku> fenn: amazon pays shit for salary (by FAANG standards at least) and makes it up with stock options
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01:09 < maaku> but the options are back-loaded so you don't get the vast majority of them until the very end of your vesting period, and they work you to death in the mean time inside of a very toxic culture
01:10 < maaku> >50% of amazon engineering hires leave before the end of their second year, at which point they are only max 20% vested while having worked for two years under market rate
01:11 < maaku> which shows you how messed up their culture is if people are so willing to give up those golden handcuffs to get out
01:12 < maaku> I have no idea if BO operates similarly. But even if it was free of this type of BS, it's still run by the most incompetent old-aerospace MBA executives who don't understand anything other than how to suckle the government's teat
01:13 < fenn> "Starlink lost 40 satellites to a geomagnetic storm" https://www.spacex.com/updates/
01:13 < maaku> I've worked with what I thought were incompetent managers and company strategists, and I can't imagine how utterly depressing it must be to work in an environment where so much potential is so thoroughly squandered
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01:14 < fenn> that's all old space though
01:15 < fenn> BO is old space pretending to be new space
01:15 < fenn> and failing at both
01:15 < fenn> well, they do get the government teat
01:16 < maaku> no they lost the government teat and went for scorched-earth policy instead 
01:16 < fenn> i just saw some huge number a few days ago like $350k/yr for new amazon hires, i didn't look into it at all
01:16 < maaku> that's RSUs-included
01:16 < fenn> BO still gets $B for doing nothing
01:17 < maaku> yeah let's see what happens if/when they lose the next-generation space station bid
01:18 < maaku> even by old-aerospace standards though, BO is among the worst of the bunch (tied with today's Boeing, I would say)
01:19 < maaku> I worked for Lockheed for a while, and at least there it felt like a combination of doing really good work while (the company) got paid quite handsomly for it
01:19 < maaku> maximizing overhead, but still delivering on time or within expectation
01:21 < maaku> BO and Boeing seem more like a government shakedown racket. "Give us the contract money, or else!" and then they fuck off and do nothing
01:21 < maaku> The Putin of the aerospace world.
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01:22 < maaku> But their engineers are really bright. There's a lot of good people working there. So giving a talk to them is probably a good idea lsneff
01:23 < fenn> i've heard that all of the good engineers at boeing left years ago
01:23 < fenn> not sure about BO, but, well, the magnagement is incompetent so nothing gets done in the end anyway
01:24 < fenn> i haven't heard of any really avoidable explosions at least
01:24 < maaku> for a long time your options in big-money commercial newspace were SpaceX (works you to death in the Texas heat) or BO (great work/life balance in the pacific northwest!)
01:25 < maaku> So a lot of good engineers, especially the good Boeing ones already in the Seattle area, went to work for BO where they could do awesome stuff and have a family etc.
01:26 < fenn> makes sense
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01:59 < maaku> .tw 1491117126135922689
01:59 < saxo> Lockheed Martin Space is hiring for a lot of cool positions right now. Where else can you be a // Nuclear Thermal Propulsion engineer / https://www.lockheedmartinjobs.com/job/littleton/nuclear-thermal-engineer/694/23025638960 // Lunar Rover Designer / https://www.lockheedmartinjobs.com/job/houston/sr-electronics-engineer-new-lunar-rover-design/694/22980364464 // Mars Sample Return Aeroshell manager / https://www.lockheedmartinjobs.co
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02:08 < srk> flexures on jwst :D https://hackaday.com/2022/02/08/working-model-reveals-amazing-engineering-of-webbs-mirror-actuators/
02:19 < fenn> josiah zayner lives in austin now i guess
02:25 < fenn> my nook e-ink reader spontaneously decided to start working again after i put it away in a broken state of unknown cause (battery wouldn't charge)
02:25 < fenn> years later i pulled it out again and it charges right up
02:25 < fenn> win? but i don't feel good about it
02:26 < fenn> don't know what went wrong or how to fix it if it happens again
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04:15 < muurkha> lsneff: congratulations
04:16 < muurkha> L29Ah: it's always possible they're using the ineffective tracking solution to camouflage an effective one
04:17 < muurkha> I really like Marcel's writing, fenn 
04:26 < muurkha> a thing I don't understand, though, is when he says "adding small improvements on nearly every part of the old design."  What old design?
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05:40 < lsneff> Haha, point taken, I won’t work for blue origin
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05:53 < lsneff> Km512 printheads apparently range from $1500 - $3000
06:00 < muurkha> are those piezo and well documented?
06:04 < muurkha> where do you live?  I forget
06:08 < muurkha> for US$1560 you can get 9 identical brand new Epson inkjet printers where I live, but none of the models whose waveforms have been documented in the open literature are still available
06:26 < lsneff> I’m in the us. Yeah, they’re piezo and well-documented I assume
06:27 < lsneff> I’m sure it costs them way less to make them
06:27 < lsneff> Frustrating
06:54 < lsneff> I could get a ton of consumer printers, but I do bet the industrial printheads are a lot more robust
06:58 < muurkha> I doubt any of them are robust; they have to hold micron-level tolerances
06:58 < muurkha> I mean that if you're in Seattle or Portland the available resources are different than if you're in rural Idaho
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09:21 < lsneff> I’m in an oasis of civilization within rural Pennsylvania
09:32 < muurkha> rural civilization is an oxymoron
09:35 < muurkha> (before you protest that I'm deprecating rural people, let me protest: rural people can be wonderful, courteous, educated, etc., but "civilization" comes from "civil", an adjectival form of "civis" "city-dweller")
09:36 < muurkha> perhaps you know someone who repairs inkjet printers and/or refills them with ink who might have a shed containing some broken Epson printers
09:37 < muurkha> who might be willing to give them away or at least sell them for a very low price
09:37 < muurkha> maybe some of them are specifically the models mentioned in the sources I found earlier whose wave forms are already documented
09:38 < muurkha> probably having multiple printers of the same type would be a force multiplier, though; you don't have to be so careful not to break them when trying waveforms, and you don't have to start over from square one if you do break one anyway
09:41 < nmz787_> let's not joke, "rural" pennsylvania isn't /that/ rural
09:42 < nmz787_> (as confirmed in my opinion by how much of a hot area it is on dark-sky maps)
09:43 < nmz787_> https://darksitefinder.com/maps/world.html#5/40.078/-97.339
09:44 < nmz787_> in my opinion though, basically the whole of the eastern US isn't very rural
09:46 < muurkha> I'm thinking there are probably places there where it isn't prohibitively expensive to maintain an unheated building full of broken printers
09:46 < muurkha> which I'm thinking is maybe less likely in Pittsburgh
09:46 < nmz787_> idk Pittsburgh is pretty damn cheap to buy a house
09:46 < nmz787_> (I'm from there)
09:47 < nmz787_> I believe lsneff if at least an hour or three from PGH tho
09:47 < nmz787_> taxes in PGH are stupid high though
09:51 < muurkha> you surely know many orders of magnitude more than I do about it
09:52 < nmz787_> maybe I missed some part of the chat, but I didn't get the feeling lsneff was looking for more than "a printer" for 3D electronics work
09:52 < nmz787_> which certainly doesn't need any/much consideration of space/real-estate
09:52 < nmz787_> I'm sure several on-campus clubs have enough table space
09:54 < muurkha> I think he's specifically looking for piezoelectric inkjet printheads with documented interfaces (or at least feasible to reverse-engineer) and the potential to deposit UV-curable photopolymer resin monomers and silver-nanoparticle conductive ink
09:54 < nmz787_> honestly I bet someone on his campus already has that setup
09:55 < nmz787_> I think the pic he posted online recent showed Penn State
09:55 < nmz787_> which has a huge research footprint
09:55 < muurkha> and I get the sense that he thinks US$1500-US$3000 for Km512 printheads is a high enough cost to be an obstacle
09:55 < muurkha> that would be ideal!
10:18 < lsneff> Oh, penn state has a ridiculous research budget, but I personally am not that cash rich
10:19 < lsneff> I also wouldn’t trust academic research to turn the concept into a project that other people could build
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10:20 < kanzure> where did our inkjet machine shop guy go
10:20 < kanzure> didn't we have someone (CaptainUnderpringle?) that owned an custom inkjet company
10:22 < lsneff> I also don’t think penn state would be pleased to be doing research that’s breaking some company’s patents
10:22 < lsneff> I, on the other hand, do not care
10:25 < muurkha> you might be able to use their equipment though
10:25 < lsneff> Equipment? The only thing I’d need that I wouldn’t prefer to build or already have is the printheads themselves.
10:26 < muurkha> even if you are going to build the printer, you might benefit from getting some experience with already-working printers capable of handling such materials, or talking to people who have built them or used them
10:26 < lsneff> Probably
10:27 < lsneff> Regardless, I don’t have the time to build it now, I’ll look into it again once I graduate
10:27 < muurkha> graduation is good, I should have done that
10:29 < lsneff> Sometimes I really wish I didn’t have to do an undergrad thesis, could spend a lot more time doing cool stuff like this
10:33 < nmz787_> why isn't your thesis on this cool stuff?
10:35 < lsneff> For several reasons: a lot of the stuff I think about building breaks patent laws, which would be a no go for a thesis. Also, I needed something that I felt confident I could be interested in for at least a year, which is often not the case for my other projects
10:35 < lsneff> I also wanted to do a thesis based on research, not engineering
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21:29 < maaku> lsneff: "more time when I graduate" lol
21:29 < maaku> that's a joke right?
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23:41 < fenn> patent law has an exemption for research
23:43 < fenn> inkjet printers of the 2d and 3d types have been around for quite a while now. are the relevant patents expired?
23:53 < nmz787_> lsneff: what fenn said about patents... your thesis should have no issue whatsoever because of patents
--- Log closed Thu Feb 10 00:00:55 2022