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06:46 < Jay_Dugger> Well put, fenn.
07:41 < kanzure> "In birds and fur-bearing mammals, fur or feathers block UV rays from reaching the skin. Instead, vitamin D is created from oily secretions of the skin deposited onto the feathers or fur, and is obtained orally during grooming."
08:00 < Jay_Dugger> Yuck. I'll stick to pills.
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08:13 < kanzure> jay has left to prune his feathers
09:54 < fenn> in a distant future where vitamin D supplements are unavailable, man survives by licking his furry friends
09:54 < fenn> "This. Is. Necessary!"
10:33 < muurkha> because sunbathing is too dangerous for humans?
12:35 < fenn> the machines run on solar power, so we scorched the sky
12:35 < lsneff> .t https://www.vast.inc/
12:35 < saxo> Vast
12:35 < lsneff> https://www.vast.inc/about
12:36 < fenn> "Launch costs have already come down two orders of magnitude . The impending availability of Starship and other next-generation launch vehicles promises to transformationally reduce the cost of launch even further, enabling much larger structures and grander visions than any current player is proposing. Everyone else is designing for legacy launch vehicles while we’re designing for the scale of
12:36 < fenn> what’s next."
12:38 < fenn> ok, but, what are they actually doing
12:38 < lsneff> ^ I met with one of the founders on friday; the company seems promising
12:38 < fenn> presumably some sort of human inhabited commercial space station
12:39 < fenn> but like, i already believe in all this stuff, and i don't see *anything* on this page
12:40 < lsneff> yeah, it’s in stealth more or less atm
12:40 < fenn> lame
12:40 < fenn> tell me why i should care
12:40 < fenn> i want to care
12:42 < lsneff> they have several hundred million in funding and are going to start building hardware this year
12:42 < lsneff> your apathy isn’t on me to solve
12:42 < fenn> holy crap why don't they say that on the page then?
12:45 < lsneff> no clue
12:46 < lsneff> but they’re working on cool stuff, might intern for them in the fall
13:02 < muurkha> if they can build a human-inhabited commercial space station for only a few hundred million dollars (I assume you mean that and not yen or something) that'll be a big change
13:02 < muurkha> and, yes, it's plausible Starship could enable it
13:03 < fenn> you could do it with a falcon heavy launch for a hundred million
13:03 < muurkha> using conventional space station designs, maybe, but those make the station itself cost billions
13:03 < fenn> bah
13:04 < fenn> 64t is a lot
13:04 < muurkha> Bigelow Aerospace's inflatable habs seemed promising; what happened to those?
13:04 < fenn> get some industrial autoclaves, add scuba rebreathers and commercially available flexible solar panels
13:05 < fenn> or do some actual hardware development
13:05 < fenn> bigelow was badly managed and effectively went bust
13:06 < muurkha> aw :(
13:06 < fenn> SNC has a prototype of basically the same tech, and is still in business
13:06 < muurkha> the knuckle-dragging contingent is out in force on the orange website: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30397459
13:06 < muurkha> (topic: Dyson spheres)
13:07 < fenn> somebody is wrong on the internet!
13:07 < muurkha> yeah, I need to break my addiction to wallowing in that particular cesspool
13:09 < muurkha> it might be useful for advertising results but not for exploring possibilities
13:10 < muurkha> where are the best places to explore possibilities?
13:10 < muurkha> (without getting caught up in some sort of culture war purity spiral about what "99% of trans people" think)
13:11 < muurkha> or whether Columbus "discovered" America: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30395268
13:12 < lsneff> The station they’re designing is designed for up to 70 people
13:13 < muurkha> if US$300M went into that project alone with an expectation of 10% ROI, that would be US$30M per year, which would be "down to" half a million dollars of profit per berth per year
13:14 < muurkha> or US$1200 per night
13:14 < muurkha> that's down in middle class space tourism territory
13:17 < muurkha> like, there are definitely W Hotel suites that cost a lot more than that
13:21 < lsneff> That’s low enough that launch costs become the main cost center
13:21 < lsneff> So, you want people staying up for a long time
13:21 < lsneff> So, the station is large enough to spin up so the ends get some reasonable percentage of a g
13:25 < fenn> is that the plan? to have artificial gravity?
13:26 < lsneff> Not on this one, just for testing artificial gravity
13:27 < muurkha> without artificial gravity it may only be appealing to those of us who travel to see solar eclipses
13:27 < fenn> huh? zero-g is half the fun
13:28 < lsneff> Tourism is not their main aim
13:28 < fenn> it would be good to get some data about the health effects of partial gravity before sending humans to live on other planetary surfaces
13:28 < fenn> "aim" or not, tourism is a huge source of potential funding
13:29 < fenn> i can't really think of any other compelling economic arguments in the near term
13:30 < fenn> in-space manufacturing technology isn't really there yet, due to lack of research
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13:43 < muurkha> it would be great to be able to go to a zero-g part of the hab in order to have the fun
13:43 < muurkha> but it might be less fun to return from your space vacation unable to stand up in earth gravity
13:45 < muurkha> also there might be people who would prefer not to be on a constant dose of dramamine or scopolamine for two or three weeks in order to not be nauseated all the time
13:46 < muurkha> Jay_Dugger: 17:54 < fenn> in a distant future where vitamin D supplements are unavailable, man survives by licking his furry friends
13:46 < Jay_Dugger> Hm. That's a hard sell for me at least.
13:47 < muurkha> probably Tesla would have loved to have an excuse to lick pigeons
13:47 < muurkha> but he could also go out and sunbathe on the hotel balcony
13:54 < muurkha> so even though he was vegetarian (vegan? not sure) he didn't necessarily need vitamin D supplements
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19:02 < fenn> it's not really clear whether it's the total "dose" of zero-g that's harmful, or the length of a continuous duration
19:03 < fenn> being able to test this by simply going to the gravity section would be really useful
19:03 < fenn> also, let's not malign tesla. his love was of the pure angelic type
19:42 < muurkha> I'm not sure if it's really harmful, but adaptations to it are at least incompatible with adaptations to 1-gee
19:42 < muurkha> I definitely didn't mean to malign Tesla
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 21 00:00:05 2022