--- Log opened Wed Feb 23 00:00:07 2022
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00:10 < Zsuzsi> NMN or NR
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00:33 < Zsuzsi> NMN (nicotinamide mononucleotide) is shown to tackle many of the 10 root causes of aging on its own
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10:23 < muurkha> does it cause cancer?
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11:33 < Zsuzsi> muurkha, I am wondering the same thing and doing the research
12:45 < nmz787_> .title https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnagi.2022.813531/full
12:45 < saxo> Frontiers | Enhanced Interplay of Neuronal Coherence and Coupling in the Dying Human Brain | Aging Neuroscience
12:45 < nmz787_> "Here, we present continuous electroencephalography (EEG) recording from a dying human brain, obtained from an 87-year-old patient undergoing cardiac arrest after traumatic subdural hematoma."
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14:13 < nsh> .t https://www.techexplorist.com/turning-hydrogen-peroxide-non-toxic-rocket-fuel-using-3d-printing/44853/
14:13 < saxo> Turning hydrogen peroxide into a non-toxic rocket fuel using 3D printing - Tech Explorist
14:15 < nsh> .wik Gyroid
14:15 < saxo> "A gyroid is an infinitely connected triply periodic minimal surface discovered by Alan Schoen in 1970. /  The gyroid is the unique non-trivial embedded member of the associate family of the Schwarz P and D surfaces." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyroid
14:16 < nsh> good luck 3d printing an infinitely connected surface
14:17 < nsh> and yet
14:17 < nsh> "The gyroid pattern has also found use in 3D printing for lightweight internal structures, due to its high strength, combined with speed and ease of printing using an FDM 3D printer.[19] "
14:17 < nsh> presumably the infiniteness is in some limit of units 
14:19 < nsh> i think the WP summary is perhaps terminologically confusing if not wrong
14:20 < nsh> the technical paper describes the period as infinite, not the connectivity. i don't actually know what i think infinitely-connected would even mean
14:22 < nsh> a non-finite number of closed paths each not homotopic to zero
14:22 < nsh> which is fine i guess for the mathematical definition of the surface just practically irrelevant as nobody is ever going to see one
14:31 < lsneff> Back when I was writing CAD, I remember tending a gyroid surface. The sdf is pretty simple iirc
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15:06 < nsh> it's just a kind of bubble i guess
15:06 < nsh> or foam
15:07 < muurkha> that article is totally bogus
15:08 < muurkha> > Hydrogen peroxide is a much less toxic alternative to hydrazine
15:08 < muurkha> well, it's less toxic but it's not an alternative; hydrazine is a strong reducing agent and H₂O₂ is a strong oxidizing agent
15:08 < nsh> i mean the regulatory storage requirements for bleach are probably a lot less onerous than hydrazine
15:08 < nsh> but maybe that's because it's used everywhere
15:09 < nsh> they're alternatives for rocket fuel i guess
15:09 < muurkha> oh, I guess it's true that as monopropellants they're alternatives
15:09 < nsh> with the right catalysis which is the "pending" part of this notion
15:10 < muurkha> the image in the article shows a honeycomb, not a gyroid
15:10 < muurkha> and there's a huge range between "less toxic than hydrazine" and "non-toxic", which is what the bogus headline claims
15:11 < muurkha> I mean yes dilute H₂O₂ has a lethal dose comparable to table salt
15:12 < muurkha> but at the concentrations used in rocket fuels it eats flesh
15:13 < muurkha> I think the gyroid is infinitely connected in the sense that you can go from any point on the surface to any other point on the surface, including points arbitrarily far away, without leaving the surface
15:15 < muurkha> it's also true that the spaces separated by the gyroid are infinite, because they're congruent and there are only two of them
15:17 < muurkha> I think, though I'm not sure, that spilling pure hydrazine on your skin is less destructive than spilling high-test peroxide on it
15:30 < maaku> I don't think that is true.  The safety measures for preventing hydrazine contact on skin is much more intense than peroxide
15:30 < maaku> And usually those safety measures actually do reflect underlying toxicity...
15:31 < muurkha> I've never had the misfortune to have to handle either one
15:31 < maaku> e.g. peroxide rockets are routinely handled without much safety gear. hydrazine requires clearing the launch/landing site and wearing hazmat suits
15:31 < muurkha> I see, thanks!
15:32 < muurkha> I think that might be because of damage to things that aren't your skin though
15:32 < maaku> true. hazmat suits are usually to prevent inhalation
15:32 < maaku> as well
15:32 < muurkha> I suspect the nice thing about H₂O₂ is that it doesn't get very far inside of you
15:32 < maaku> but sadly all the monopropellants are toxic as hell. that's why we still use them :(
15:33 < muurkha> if you breathe it in a lot of it will get consumed by destroying your nasal turbinates and olfactory bulb before it gets to your lungs, for example
15:33 < muurkha> if you spill hydrazine on your skin apparently you have to worry about liver toxicity and potential carcinogenesis
15:34 < maaku> hydrazine probably does some immediate damage, but it's a massive carcinogen and I think that's the main risk
15:34 < muurkha> maybe you're right that hydrazine is just much more toxic
15:35 < muurkha> monopropellants pretty much have to be unstable with an exothermic decomposition reaction
15:35 < muurkha> don't they?
15:36 < muurkha> that seems like it would rule out anything nontoxic
15:36 < muurkha> or non-caustic anyway
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--- Log closed Thu Feb 24 00:00:08 2022