--- Log opened Sun Feb 27 00:00:11 2022
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05:01 < Jay_Dugger> Good morning.
05:04 < streety> morning/afternoon
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14:12 < faceface> can anyone find this for me? https://doi.org/10.12788/jhm.3673 
14:12 < faceface> (not on scihub)
14:15 < faceface> also 10.1001/jamainternmed.2021.7556
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19:12 < maaku> lsneff: Russia is getting embarrassing itself on the international stage, but so far there has been nothing long lasting like the treaty of versailles
19:13 < maaku> if a reasonable or at least less-crazy oligarch put a bullet into Putiny's head and pulled out of Ukraine, all the sanctions would be withdrawn pretty quickly
19:14 < kanzure> i'm not sure why the prevailing opinion is that sanctions aren't weapons of war
19:15 < lsneff> Regardless if the sanctions are removed tomorrow, Russia's economy has been trashed, no?
19:15 < lsneff> That's a pretty long term effect
19:16 < fenn> kanzure the whole reason they're using sanctions is explicitly to avoid triggering "that's an act of war!" retributory actions
19:17 < fenn> russia's economy was trashed since the 80s when then-corrupt communist party officials, now oligarchs, took all the stuff for themselves and hollowed out the production systems
19:18 < fenn> also there's a whole fatalist culture that prevents entrepreneurship
19:18 < fenn> "we're just going to get robbed if we're successful, so why bother"
19:19 < fenn> they have craptons of natural resources, a brilliant populace, large population, culture that values education and practical skills, etc. etc.
19:21 < fenn> so, yeah, strategically allowing corruption to continue is a way of suppressing the enemy
19:21 < maaku> kanzure: sanctions are weapons of war, and are widely considered to be. but they don't trigger the 'Act of War' clauses in most (all?) international treaties
19:21 < fenn> it's a "trade war" or "diplomacy" if used at an individual level
19:23 < maaku> Also watching all the millennials and zoomers freak out about nuclear annihilation is making me feel old
19:23 < maaku> welcome to what it was like under the cold war. for 40. fucking.years.
19:25 < kanzure> also, if russia can't pay its debts, isn't that going to be a lehman moment?
19:28 < maaku> if all the banks that were happy to fund russia suddenly went under? cry me a river
19:28 < maaku> Mission Accomplished
19:29 < lsneff> perhaps this is naivety, but it seems that a people's revolution in russia is more likely now than it has been in a long time
19:31 < maaku> maybe L29Ah or one of our other russian friends can comment on that
19:52 < fenn> if i were L29Ah i would not comment on that
20:58 < maaku> true
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 28 00:00:12 2022