--- Log opened Fri Mar 11 00:00:22 2022
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01:32 < mrdata> yeah there's one a few miles from here
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04:44 < muurkha> fenn: maybe they think murder only happens because the police don't have enough information on the wingnuts?
04:45 < muurkha> I'm pretty sure you can't stop murder with gun control; the statistical evidence across countries seems to show that there's a strong correlation between gun access and suicide but little if any correlation between gun access and homicide
04:45 < muurkha> and I've personally been robbed by three crackheads armed with a flathead screwdriver and a keychain-sized boxcutter
04:51 < muurkha> fenn: I had no idea hard drive heads had a 2nm flying height, but it looks like that checks out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_height
04:52 < muurkha> the shrinky dink approach is pretty interesting; has anybody tried that?
04:54 < muurkha> the shrinky-dink reduction factor is about a linear factor of 5 IIRC?  but there's a fair bit of surface roughness and the shrinky-dinks tend to warp when you bake them
04:55 < muurkha> would the grain size of laser-printer toner, or its surface tension at shrinking temperatures, limit your resolution?
04:56 < muurkha> xaete[m]: I think synthesizing acetic anhydride is fairly easy?
04:57 < muurkha> nmz787_: have you thought about just setting up a clean bench rather than a clean room?  stick your gloved hands into it through supermarket-freezer-style vinyl curtain fringes
04:58 < muurkha> then you don't need to worry about hair, shoes, and coughing in the cleanroom, and the size of your filter drops by orders of magnitude
04:59 < muurkha> similar to what xaete[m] was saying about laminar flow hood but potentially a few times larger and not necessarily designed for corrosive vapors
05:31 < muurkha> also, can you really print toner on a shrinky-dink?  I'd think the fuser would shrink the shrinky-dink prematurely?
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06:04 < xaete[m]> muurkha: wrt acetic anhydride the main issues arent technological (acetic anhydrie is a commodity chem in the sense that you /can/ order railcars of it) but more rather legal, because its considered a drug precursor
06:05 < xaete[m]> that doesnt mean its impossible to get, just slightly more difficult over the rest (which you can basically just order from china no questions asked)
06:18 < kanzure> "The exact security of bip32 wallets" https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/1287.pdf
07:18 < muurkha> xaete[m]: yeah, I figured that was what you were talking about.  but potassium acetate, benzoyl chloride, benzoic acid, benzyl alcohol, phosphorus pentachloride, thionyl chloride, sulfuryl chloride, oxalyl chloride, methyl acetate, iodomethane, acetyl iodide, acetone, and acetic acid aren't, affording many synthesis routes.  Benzotrichloride isn't restricted that way but it's subject to other 
07:18 < muurkha> reporting requirements, and methanol isn't restricted in most places
07:19 < muurkha> maybe at some point people who have bought railcars of acetic acid or benzoic acid will come under suspicion of having made acetic anhydride from it, but at least for the time being you can just buy them from China too
07:21 < xaete[m]> pcl5 has other issues with it, namely that its a CWC listed chemical iirc. oxalyl chloride is probably the "easiest" way to do it (but do it outside or in a fume hood)
07:22 < xaete[m]> ik abt the methyl acetate route but i dont think you can do that without industrial equipment, no?
07:23 < xaete[m]> all the "do this at home" routes ive heard of either used another dehydrating acid anhydride or chloride (like pcl5, oxalyl chloride, etc) which arent the easiest to get
07:24 < xaete[m]> maybe cyanuric trichloride might be easy-ish actually, but i'm not sure (i'm p. sure its not watched tho)
07:24 < muurkha> I don't actually know anything about this stuff
07:24 < muurkha> so I haven't done the methyl acetate route, what's the obstacle to doing it on a small scale?
07:25 < muurkha> you're right about CWC, it's on schedule III
07:26 < xaete[m]> going to the wikipedia page for acetic anhydride the methyl acetate route is a carbonylation (!) and going to the original source it requires huge amounts of carbon monoxide and high temperatures
07:26 < muurkha> yeah, that's my understanding
07:26 < muurkha> making huge amounts of carbon monoxide is easy though
07:26 < xaete[m]> the acetone ->ketene route uh. well ketene is (iirc) as toxic as phosgene, so i would prefer not to :P
07:26 < muurkha> I mean people do it by accident sometimes
07:27 < xaete[m]> kek
07:27 < muurkha> how high a temperature do you need?
07:27 < muurkha> (probably higher without a decent catalyst)
07:28 < xaete[m]> the paper says 190 C, 750 psig, (50 bar i think)
07:28 < muurkha> heating things up to 1000° or so is pretty easy if they aren't allergic to metal
07:28 < xaete[m]> with rhodium lithium and a few other bits
07:28 < muurkha> 190° is easy
07:28 < muurkha> .units 750 psi in bar
07:28 < xaete[m]> plus syngas (CO + H2)
07:28 < saxo> 	750 psi = 51.71068 bar 	750 psi = (1 / 0.019338365) bar 
07:28 < muurkha> right
07:28 < xaete[m]> but CO is scary, high pressure is scary, and rhodium is expensive
07:29 < muurkha> well, if you wanted railcars full sure
07:29 < xaete[m]> if cyanuric trichloride doesnt work (i think it does and is uncontrolled) then id just bite the bullet and buy it lol
07:30 < xaete[m]> but wikipedia notes that you can use it to convert alcohols and carboxylic acid acids to alkyl and aryl halides
07:30 < xaete[m]> for these applications id probably need no more than (arbitrarily choosing a number) 1L of acetic anhydride, so it should work on this scale
07:30 < muurkha> but if you're talking about 20g or something I'd think you could synthesize it 100mg at a time in a benchtop continuous-flow process
07:31 < muurkha> and 100mg of 50-bar CO doesn't sound that scary to me
07:31 < xaete[m]> meh, just grab a 5l flask or somethin and go to town with the cyanuric chloride. i bet its cheap enough to anyways
07:31 < muurkha> does it produce a cyanide side product?
07:31 < xaete[m]> no it produces cyanuric acid i believe
07:32 < xaete[m]> which is, according to wikipedia "essentially nontoxic"
07:33 < muurkha> neat
07:33 < muurkha> I always mix up my cyanides and cyanates.  another reason I'm glad I'm not actually doing this stuff ;)
07:33 < xaete[m]> cyanuric chloride has 3 chlorines and is 184.3 g/mol
07:33 < xaete[m]> so around 61 grams for each mole of acyl chloride
07:34 < muurkha> sounds manageable
07:34 < xaete[m]> eh this one is a bit weirder, its actually the trimer of cyanogen chloride
07:36 < muurkha> wow
07:40 < xaete[m]> ac2o is 102g/mol (gah why is carbon so light and chlorine so heavy), so youd need a decent amount of cyanogen chloride, though not like. super crazy amounts
08:14 < lsneff> https://llvm.org/ProjectsWithLLVM/Ascenium.pdf
08:14 < lsneff> > Ascenium: A Continuously Reconfigurable Architecture
09:16 < muurkha> yeah, chlorine is obnoxiously heavy
09:30 < muurkha> apparently Litecoin is implementing Mimblewimble? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30636772
09:31 < muurkha> .t
09:31 < saxo> Litecoin is implementing Mimblewimble? | Hacker News
09:35 < kanzure> litecoin also deployed segwit ahead of bitcoin iirc
09:36 < muurkha> that was mentioned a bit in the thread but I didn't really understand what they said
09:37 < muurkha> also someone said the litecoin blockchain is only 70GB?  that's surprising to me since their block time is so much shorter than Bitcoin's
09:56 < nmz787_> muurkha: yeah, but I think I have too many machines to need to interface with
10:00 < nmz787_> I could imagine how it might work with a nano imaging workflow.... you find a dead wasp, then you put that in the clean bench on the very left of the benchtop... then into your sputter coater (which would be completetly inside the clean bench). then you take the wasp out of the coater after a minute or so, put the wasp on some sort of linear rail cart/platform (inside the bench), and slide it along 
10:00 < nmz787_> to the loadlock on the FIB. your arms would leave the bench opening near the coater, and move to the FIB loadlock, move over there, put arms inside the bench again, load sample onto platter and then into the FIB loadlock chamber
10:00 < nmz787_> but then, what happens if you need to clean/service the FIB.... which is like a 6ft per side cube
10:00 < nmz787_> since the majority is outside the clean area
10:01 < nmz787_> also that's only two machines, and seems to basically require all the I/O is in line (because the whole linear rail to move things between machines)
10:02 < nmz787_> I also have a SEM, TEM, plan on having a plasma etch/deposition system (or possibly two separate units for each of those actvities)
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13:48 < muurkha> a SEM might require a fairly hefty bench to support it
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 12 00:00:23 2022