--- Log opened Wed Mar 30 00:00:40 2022
00:11 < maaku> fenn: what's the story on this guy being creepy? do you have a link?
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05:27 < fenn> maaku, no i just hate his face: https://nitter.net/ramansell
05:29 < fenn> typical brain-short-circuited christian knows-better-than-you smile
05:30 < fenn> anyway, even giving publicity in the form of controversy feeds his business model, so i will stop talking about it
05:32 < fenn> single molecule protein sequencing is kind of a big deal
06:35 < fenn> sort of a review website, a portal to the existing literature, kinda dated http://www.programmed-aging.org/
06:40 < fenn> compared to wild animals, "humans have greater medical support and ... life spans of humans are better monitored. we have measured the life span of several hundred million people. what if we measured several hundred million rockfish, what would be their maximum age?"
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07:08 < juri_> the concept of maximum age is a bit messed up. humans have greater medical support.. but we still don't really prioritize health care. aparently megayachts are more important.
07:13 < juri_> the proclivity to earn money, to buy stuff, then die owning it should be treated like a mental health issue.
07:39 < lsneff> ^
07:52 < kanzure> we spend more money on healthcare than megayachts, don't know what you're talking about
07:52 < juri_> per capita, yes, but does anyone who owns a megayacht spend 700 million dollars on health care?
07:53 < juri_> I'd think that would purchase a lot of health care.
08:23 < fenn> mental health treatment is pretty ineffective so maybe don't use that as the ideal
08:24 < fenn> one of the perks of being a billionaire is you get to flout norms
08:25 < fenn> you'd think this would result in more unique and novel behavior than it does
08:25 < fenn> a crisis of lack of imagination
08:40 < juri_> indeed.
08:45 < fenn> "blind people who tried to learn braille before age 10 got to 60WPM. Nearly all after that age had problems hitting 6WPM"
09:02 < muurkha> not sure spending 700 million dollars on health care would get you anything other than grifters
09:14 < fenn> that's why you hire a meta-grifter who has to at least come up with a convincing story on how they're not grifters
09:15 < otoburb> fenn: If not braille, TTS instead? 
09:24 < otoburb> Along the same lines of thinking where tactile acuity declines past age 10, somebody is doing a Kickstarter campaign for a new tactile font nominally based on the Roman alphabet (ELIA Frames). Given how entrenched braille seems to be in the blind community, not sure how much adoption there will be.
09:37 < muurkha> I've never been rich enough to have multiple people make it their full-time job to get my money specifically, fenn, but I imagine it's a potentially difficult situation
09:47 < fenn> indeed
09:47 < fenn> you'd need the internal epistomological rigor of socrates to make it out the other side with your beliefs intact
09:49 < muurkha> you might end up with rules of thumb like "don't offer hundreds of millions of dollars for health care services"
09:49 < fenn> doesn't matter if they know you've got the cash
09:50 < fenn> i was complaining to luke nosek about this, but it didn't make him my friend :\
09:50 < muurkha> doesn't it?
09:51 < fenn> you'd have to make your decision making processes public, rule-based, and explicit, so people know there's no possible way of influencing you personally. and that's just dumb, because of course you can change the rules
09:51 < muurkha> how would a quack surgeon get hundreds of millions of dollars out of you if you don't plan to offer it?  I don't think contracts signed under anesthesia are valid
09:51 < fenn> well you gotta do something with your money or it's worthless
09:52 < muurkha> sure, I'm not saying spending lots of money on healthcare would be a bad idea if you could find an efficient way to do it
09:52 < fenn> people will influence you to buy whatever their game is. some of the goods and services offered are junk, some are truly good, but it's hard to tell when there are constellations of beneficiaries with motivated cognition
09:53 < muurkha> I'm just thinking of Project Huemul where Perón offered essentially the full resources of Argentina to develop nuclear power
09:53 < fenn> unfortunately it seems most rich just end up buying luxury handbags in a pointless keeping up with the joneses rat race, which is definitely known to be useless
09:54 < fenn> actually investing into healthcare research is pretty rare
09:54 < muurkha> luxury handbags are at least enjoyable
09:54 < fenn> meh, not in proportion to the cost
09:54 < muurkha> no, but the sign is positive
09:54 < muurkha> not true of being grifted
09:54 < muurkha> see Project Huemul
09:54 < fenn> project huemul seemed like a good idea to everybody involved, until suddenly it didn't
09:55 < fenn> it's not a case of "grifting" so much as "wishful thinking" or the luck of the draw
09:55 < fenn> and then digging yourself deeper into a hole
09:55 < muurkha> possibly Project Huemul started out that way
09:55 < fenn> not all roads to hell are paved with the best intentions
09:55 < muurkha> at some point it decayed into a desperate grift
09:56 < muurkha> possibly even before Perón got involved
09:56 < fenn> saving imaginary african children is also pleasurable, i guess
09:56 < fenn> even if they don't actually exist, or don't get the mosquito nets or whatever
09:56 < muurkha> being lauded for doing so definitely is
09:56 < fenn> right
09:57 < muurkha> (unless you know it's a lie)
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11:13 < nmz787_> fenn: https://nitter.net/ramansell reminds me of Herman Munster (or Fred Gwynn)
11:30 < TMA> humans do as they wish -- they just maximize their expected satisfaction with the decision; there are just two caveats: (a) humans generally do only vague idea what they want (like the delusions of an addict that reportedly "wants" to quit but seek another dose nevertheless) (b) there is fundamentally no agreement on the desirable outcomes -- a megayacht is desirable to one, feeling good about children in $faraway_land is to another
11:33 < TMA> basically, I find the discussion isomorphic to "I good, they bad, because of different desires. Mine better." That's not useful. ;; "How to brainwash ^Wmake them share my desires?" is more productive (and therefore more utilitarian/psychopatic-ethical)
11:37 < TMA> {my personal stance is that megayachts are boring. but so is helping children. I prefer obtaining knowledge.}
11:58 < juri_> TMA: well said.
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12:17 < muurkha> well, I think having a long, healthy life is a widely shared goal among the humans
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13:50 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9nGzIzSPw
13:50 < nmz787_> .title
13:50 < saxo> am radio tower power - YouTube
13:52 < kanzure> https://github.com/fulldecent/system-bus-radio
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14:10 < jrayhawk> https://www.jwz.org/blog/2002/11/engineering-pornography/ a nice intuition-builder on the limited geographic fungibility of electricity
14:24 < xaete[m]> Lachlan Sneff: not L29Ah but the general idea is to get a halbach array to maintain a (relatively) strong (1-2T) uniform magnetic field, while programming in methods to control the shim coils in order to get near-perfect (ppm, if not ppb) magnetic field homogeneity so you can run NMR experiments inside
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 31 00:00:41 2022