--- Log opened Sun Apr 10 00:00:50 2022 00:10 < nmz787> muurkha: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchworm_motor 00:13 < nmz787> https://www.newscaletech.com/resources/technology/squiggle-micro-motor-technology/ 00:24 -!- xaete [~user12345@2607:9880:2458:58:28b:97ad:6c54:6569] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:34 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:45 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #hplusroadmap 04:12 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0::bb3b] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:32 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:06 < lsneff> I’m sure those motors are thousands of dollars each sigh 06:18 < lsneff> “Nanometer precision” If you look closer, the precision seems to be 0.5um 06:31 -!- xaete [~user12345@2607:9880:2458:58:494:7d53:d9b4:5929] has joined #hplusroadmap 06:41 < docl> I think one thing that could be done with mems is conveyor surfaces. replace conveyor belts with a surface that pushes objects on the surface any direction, varies its stickiness/texture, etc 06:42 < docl> this could revolutionize factory settings if they are cheap to deploy and durable enough 06:47 < docl> hmm, this blog hasn't been active since 2015, someone should archive it before it disappears https://dberard.com/ 07:08 < lsneff> Dan Berard is still around 07:08 < lsneff> Talked to him a year ago iirc 07:09 < docl> nice! 07:10 < lsneff> Conveyer surfaces would be interesting 07:11 < docl> yeah... maybe you could paint them on the bottoms of cars/shoes or on the surfaces of roads/sidewalks 07:11 < lsneff> I don’t think paint would work 07:11 < lsneff> But maybe in clean room settings 07:12 < docl> unlike regular conveyor belts, you can have them change direction programmatically. so something like sorting out parts or orienting things dynamically could be built in 07:15 < docl> yeah contamination might be a deal-killer :/ 07:16 < lsneff> Mems actuators wouldn’t be able to take much load either 07:22 < docl> I'm not sure they need to have much load in terms of power, just simulate zero friction + slight push, and be able to turn that off selectively as needed to steer/stabilize things 07:48 < lsneff> No, just as in taking the weight of objects placed on them 08:09 < docl> I guess I'm thinking the weight is spread over the surface and thus millions of devices so the limit would be high. But if they are delicate enough that won't be enough 08:54 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamamoe@178235178027.dynamic-4-waw-k-1-2-0.vectranet.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:08 < lsneff> Yeah, I guess it’d depend on the actuators in particular 09:08 < lsneff> And its important to note that most objects are very jagged at the micro scale, so probably only a fraction of the devices would contact the objects lower surface at once 09:47 -!- sgiath [~sgiath@2a02:25b0:aaaa:aaaa:a3c3:ed4b:6b06:0] has quit [] 09:56 -!- sgiath [~sgiath@2a02:25b0:aaaa:aaaa:a3c3:ed4b:6b06:0] has joined #hplusroadmap 13:51 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:58 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:20 < lsneff> docl: Having fun on twitter today? 14:27 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamamoe@178235178027.dynamic-4-waw-k-1-2-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16 < docl> yeah lol 15:17 < docl> if I can turn those two I'll have accomplished something 15:18 < docl> thanks for showing up. you're probably more credible than me in terms of hands on stuff 15:18 < kanzure> "Multi-omic rejuvenation of human cells by maturation phase transient reprogramming" https://elifesciences.org/articles/71624 15:23 < kanzure> i need an update on operation silver poop from the backlog, thanks 15:28 < kanzure> "Evolutionary Biology and Gene Editing of Cat Allergen, Fel d 1" https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/crispr.2021.0101 https://singularityhub.com/2022/04/08/scientists-are-using-crispr-gene-editing-to-try-to-create-hypoallergenic-cats/ 15:29 < kanzure> we could also edit hoo-mans to not be allergic to cats 15:32 < kanzure> https://www.biospace.com/article/retro-biosciences-launches-with-180-million-to-increase-healthy-human-lifespan-by-10-years-/ 15:46 < kanzure> https://www.instagram.com/openaidalle/ 16:36 < kanzure> "Geroscience-guided repurposing of FDA-approved drugs to target aging: A proposed process and prioritization" https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acel.13596 16:47 < docl> .tw https://twitter.com/CJHandmer/status/1513296491623837697 16:47 < saxo> @DrPhiltill @Robotbeat @lsparrish @MrKhagol Okay what if it lasts 1000 years? We all personally own a sun? At some point the extrapolation becomes silly. You choose to believe it's valid until after your O'Neillian/Asimov vision is real, but that doesn't prove those writers saw the future any more than wishful thinking. (@CJHandmer, in reply to tw:1513295760443514889) 16:47 < docl> casey handmer and phil metzger going at it 17:10 -!- gnusha [~gnusha@user/gnusha] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:10 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | https://diyhpl.us/wiki | not quite sponsored by george church | banned by the MIT media lab and the FDA 17:10 -!- Topic set by fenn [~fenn@user/fenn] [Fri Mar 25 06:29:19 2022] 17:10 [Users #hplusroadmap] 17:10 [@ChanServ ] [ darsie ] [ heath ] [ lsneff ] [ ptrcmd ] [ strages ] 17:10 [ ^ditto ] [ deltab ] [ helleshin ] [ maaku ] [ redlegion ] [ streety ] 17:10 [ acertain ] [ docl ] [ Hooloovoo ] [ mgxm ] [ RubenSomsen ] [ superkuh] 17:10 [ andytoshi] [ dr-orlovsky] [ Jay_Dugger ] [ mirage335] [ s0ph1a ] [ TMA ] 17:10 [ archels ] [ dustinm ] [ Jenda ] [ mrdata ] [ saxo ] [ xaete ] 17:10 [ balrog ] [ EnabrinTain] [ johest ] [ muurkha ] [ SDr ] [ xaete[m]] 17:10 [ berndj ] [ faceface ] [ jrayhawk ] [ nmz787 ] [ sgiath ] [ yuanti ] 17:10 [ cc0 ] [ FelixWeis ] [ juri_ ] [ nsh- ] [ sivoais ] 17:10 [ chiastre ] [ fenn ] [ kanzure ] [ otoburb ] [ sknebel ] 17:10 [ cpopell ] [ flooded ] [ L29Ah ] [ pasky ] [ soundandfury] 17:10 [ Croran ] [ gnusha ] [ livestradamus] [ potatope ] [ srk ] 17:10 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 62 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 61 normal] 17:10 -!- mode/#hplusroadmap [+v gnusha] by ChanServ 17:10 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Wed May 19 06:51:36 2021 17:12 -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 133 secs 17:25 < lsneff> Yeah, I don’t think they think me very reputable, just a college student who doesn’t know what he’s talking about 17:25 < lsneff> But it is fun to watch them argue 17:26 -!- catalase [catalase@stable.bnc.by.bnc4you.xyz] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:50 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@user/malvolio] has joined #hplusroadmap 18:05 < muurkha> thanks nmz787! 18:06 < muurkha> lsneff: it's common for nanometer-precision motors like this to have something like 500nm step size but still 1nm precision 18:06 < muurkha> because microstepping 18:13 < lsneff> Ah, interesting 18:17 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@user/malvolio] has quit [Quit: and confess naughty secrets to ChanServ] 18:29 < muurkha> regardless of whether they're piezo or electromagnetic 18:47 -!- Croran [~Croran@71.231.214.173] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05 < muurkha> (voice-coil actuators don't have a step size) 20:10 < muurkha> an inchworm motor with a 500 nm step size using 0.05% strain piezoelectric actuators (about the limit for PZT, which can do 30 MPa stress on a 63 GPa Young's modulus) is using a 1-mm-long or 2-mm-long longitudinal actuator, which I don't think is MEMS by anyone's definition 20:15 < muurkha> I think organic piezoelectric materials like PVDF can do larger strains but I also don't think anyone uses them in precision actuators because PZT is much more rigid and has much lower creep 20:16 < muurkha> (as are other piezoeletric ceramics like barium titanate and quartz, though maybe not Rochelle salt) 20:17 < muurkha> *c 20:29 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:05 < fenn> something like this should work fine for a directional surface, just not a controllable-direction. maybe you could have interlaced patches of each direction of bristle http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2007/bristlebot-a-tiny-directional-vibrobot/ 21:05 < muurkha> yeah, each bristle can probe to a different depth 21:06 < fenn> i mean like an RGB bayer mask but instead of RGB it's UP DOWN LEFT RIGHT 21:06 < muurkha> though I guess if you're not sensing the force you'll need some compliance in there (as Lenore and Windell used) to get them all to make contact 21:06 < muurkha> right 21:07 < maaku> it seems MIRI and lesswrong are in full meltdown regarding AI x-risk : https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/j9Q8bRmwCgXRYAgcJ/miri-announces-new-death-with-dignity-strategy 21:07 < muurkha> or you could just use two omnidirectional patches of bristles with 3DoF actuation on each patch 21:08 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has quit [Quit: Client closed] 21:08 < muurkha> or four patches to reduce the moments on the bristles 21:08 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:08 < fenn> maaku: note the post date, or did you mean the comments? 21:09 < maaku> fenn: you perhaps have larger insight into this than me due to your living circumstances? 21:09 < fenn> no? 21:09 < maaku> but EY has commented multiple times which seems to imply that this is not an april fool's day joke 21:09 < maaku> and there are now multiple other articles discussing it on LW 21:09 < fenn> it's literally tagged "april fool's" 21:10 < muurkha> heh, you should have let us stew a little longer, fenn 21:10 < maaku> that's used as an excuse to go a bit overboard, but aparantly as a rhetorical device for a belief EY genuinely holds 21:11 < fenn> dunno 21:11 < maaku> according to people I recognize as involved in the Berekely rationalist community 21:11 < maaku> in the comments 21:11 < muurkha> well, he might be right 21:12 < maaku> https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/dSaScvukmCRqey8ug/convince-me-that-humanity-is-as-doomed-by-agi-as-yudkowsky 21:12 < maaku> https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Cf2zBkoocqcjnrNFD/emotionally-confronting-a-probably-doomed-world-against 21:12 < fenn> well i did commit to not getting anything done today. might as well read some lesswrong doomerism 21:12 < maaku> I'll stop spamming there. Half of the articles on LW posted since April 1st are on this subject 21:13 < maaku> heh sorry 21:13 < fenn> i was going to watch "red dawn" 21:19 < fenn> "chris olah, you mean the guy that wrote implicitCAD?" 21:20 * fenn mutters "we're all nelson mandela, still in his cell" 21:22 < fenn> Once, in a cheap science fiction novel, Fat had come across a perfect description of the Black Iron Prison, but set in the far future. So if you superimposed the past (ancient Rome) over the present (California in the twentieth century) and superimposed the far future world of The Android Cried Me a River over that, you got the Empire, as the supra- or trans-temporal constant. Everyone who had 21:22 < fenn> ever lived was literally surrounded by the iron walls of the prison; they were all inside it and none of them knew it. 21:25 < muurkha> could be worse, could be walls of aging, wilful ignorance, addiction, or other self-destructive behavior 21:25 < muurkha> iron can be cut 21:27 < muurkha> walls of people stabbing each other in the back and fighting to the death over trivialities 21:28 < fenn> well, yes, i think that is what he was talking about 22:12 < lsneff> Classic lesswrong 22:13 < lsneff> Creating the things that they swore not to 22:26 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has quit [Quit: Client closed] 22:26 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:31 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: berndj, superkuh 22:33 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:35 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@user/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:36 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:43 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: andytoshi, heath, fenn 22:43 -!- Netsplit over, joins: andytoshi 22:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: heath 23:02 -!- dr-orlovsky [~dr-orlovs@31.14.40.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38 -!- xaete [~user12345@2607:9880:2458:58:494:7d53:d9b4:5929] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44 -!- fenn [~fenn@user/fenn] has joined #hplusroadmap --- Log closed Mon Apr 11 00:00:51 2022