--- Log opened Tue Jun 21 00:00:58 2022 01:38 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap 03:05 -!- Molly_Lucy [~Molly_Luc@user/Molly-Lucy/x-8688804] has joined #hplusroadmap 05:27 -!- Molly_Lucy [~Molly_Luc@user/Molly-Lucy/x-8688804] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09 < nmz787> tma adlai|alphanum fenn kanzure: yeah but you're all just rehashing the wikipedia article, which isn't well cited 07:09 < nmz787> err, nevermind on citations, I was looking at a diff section 07:10 < nmz787> but you're just repeating that basically 07:17 < adlai|alphanum> nmz787: lol, I didn't even open wikipedia 07:17 < kanzure> hm? 07:17 < kanzure> oh. 07:18 * adlai|alphanum had a fundamentalist christian friend in high school, and thus spent lots of time reading dawkins books in the hope of talking some sense into the fundie. 07:19 < adlai|alphanum> imo, dawkins is a bit too extreme for reaching folks who are off the deep end; Dennett's book "Breaking the Spell" is more accessible for those cases. 07:20 < adlai|alphanum> however, Dawkins has more books about biology. Dennett's book is really only about the social / psychological aspects of religion. 07:21 < nmz787> basically wikipedia quotes dawkins a bunch 07:23 < TMA> nmz787: does correspondence with wikipedia make the arguments false? 07:23 < adlai|alphanum> well he is the professor of dumbing down science for laypeople, isn't he? 07:25 < adlai|alphanum> "was Professor for Public Understanding of Science in the University of Oxford" 07:31 < nmz787> no, just that my friend is looking for any alternative theories to "the standard" that has existed for decades, because it doesn't sit well with him 07:31 < nmz787> as I said, he wonders if something more akin to eukaryote evolution (coming together of symbiotes) was ever proposed/explored 07:32 < nmz787> i.e. some phototroph that somehow parasitized and then symbiotized another multicellular blob 07:33 < nmz787> (and then integrated) 07:43 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:14 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:23 < TMA> nmz787: so basically "I don't want to believe this, because of no reasons in particular, do you have another theory I can possibly dismiss as well?" 08:25 < TMA> that came off more bluntly than I expected while writing it 08:40 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap 08:41 < kanzure> there might be alternate evolutionary pathways 09:05 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #hplusroadmap 09:31 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:38 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:16 < fenn> space aliens with a deep understanding of optics and distributed systems, and an insane programming methodology, created a replicator and then upgraded a small subset of the replicated material with optical instruments 10:17 < fenn> every million years a new wave of interstellar DNA packets arrive in the form of space viruses that drift down from the stratosphere and interact with the bacterial ecosystem in the oceans 10:27 -!- heath1 is now known as heath 10:28 -!- heath [~heath@user/heath] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.7] 10:28 -!- heath [~heath@user/heath] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:29 -!- bulbasaur [~bulbasaur@207.253.236.155] has joined #hplusroadmap 10:29 < lkcl> kanzure, crows have a completely different (high-level) neural structure than primates but are just as intelligent / conscious / self-aware 10:34 < lkcl> at all the people arguing over "intelligent design" i love shouting "ya both wrong, dummies: god's intelligent tool *is* evolution, now fer deity/science/sanity's sake, all y'all *shut up*" :) 10:34 < lkcl> just to reaally throw a spanner in the works of the community/humanity-polarisation that one's causing 10:36 < muurkha> I haven't seen a crow design a CPU yet, but I've seen primates do so 11:13 < kanzure> mammalian brains are largely quite similar 11:13 < kanzure> avian and cephalopod brain i am less sure about 11:14 < muurkha> avian brains seem to be a lot more space-efficient 11:15 < muurkha> even if crows don't write novels they do make and use tools, which is more than elephants or macaques manage 11:50 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@user/superkuh] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04 < lkcl> https://youtu.be/BGPGknpq3e0?t=106 12:06 < lkcl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZerUbHmuY04 12:06 < muurkha> .t 12:06 < saxo> Causal understanding of water displacement by a crow - YouTube 12:17 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@c-24-118-172-137.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #hplusroadmap 12:18 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@c-24-118-172-137.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:18 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@user/superkuh] has joined #hplusroadmap 14:35 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00 < kanzure> https://mega-awry.io/ 15:06 < muurkha> .t 15:06 < saxo> MEGA: Malleable Encryption Goes Awry 15:10 < kanzure> https://www.npmjs.com/package/webp2p 15:11 < kanzure> https://www.peersm.com/ 15:11 < muurkha> .t 15:11 < saxo> Anonymous peer to peer download inside browsers and distributed database inside browsers, compatible with torrents but encrypted and untrackable 15:11 < muurkha> those are big claims 15:16 < kanzure> not familiar with this mailing list https://mailman.stanford.edu/pipermail/liberationtech/2014-July/thread.html 15:16 < kanzure> muurkha: yes he seems to have written an implementation of tor (node-tor) that can run in a browser, but it does not implement tor v3 15:18 < kanzure> also had funding by NLnet 15:19 < kanzure> based off of his diagram it seems it is not browser-only and needs a separate routing node? https://www.peersm.com/img/webrtc.png 15:19 < kanzure> https://github.com/Ayms/node-Tor 15:20 < kanzure> https://www.peersm.com/Convergence-2020.pdf 15:21 < fenn> how bandwidth-inefficient is it? 15:22 < fenn> liberationtech is more DC activist supporting stuff 15:23 < fenn> lots of familiar names on that 2014 page 15:23 < fenn> nicolas bourbaki :) 15:24 < kanzure> eugen leitl.. 15:24 < kanzure> aymeric vitte 15:24 < fenn> cruella devil :) 15:26 < kanzure> http://ianonym.peersm.com/ 15:31 < fenn> "Restoring Active Memory program, DARPA ... aim to develop and test wireless, fully implantable neural-interface medical devices that can serve as “neuroprosthetics”—technology that can effectively bridge the gaps that interfere with an individual’s ability to encode new memories or retrieve old ones." 15:31 < fenn> http://web.archive.org/web/20140712094717/www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2014/07/09.aspx 16:14 < kanzure> the hippocampus implants? 16:14 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampal_prosthesis 16:15 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8bix3d0tCs 16:15 < saxo> Talk by Theodore W. Berger at ECE TUC (June 18, 2019) - YouTube 17:00 -!- juri__ [~juri@79.140.115.124] has joined #hplusroadmap 17:03 -!- juri_ [~juri@79.140.115.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:58 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:26 -!- mirage3358 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:29 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:29 -!- mirage33582 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap 20:33 -!- mirage3358 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:15 -!- mrdata_ [~mrdata@135-23-182-185.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #hplusroadmap 21:16 -!- otoburb [~otoburb@user/otoburb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@user/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18 -!- otoburb [~otoburb@user/otoburb] has joined #hplusroadmap 22:41 -!- faceface [~faceface@user/faceface] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29 -!- mrdata_ [~mrdata@135-23-182-185.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Changing host] 23:29 -!- mrdata_ [~mrdata@user/mrdata] has joined #hplusroadmap 23:45 -!- mrdata_ is now known as mrdata --- Log closed Wed Jun 22 00:00:59 2022