--- Log opened Fri Jun 24 00:00:01 2022
00:15 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:05 -!- darsie is now known as darkie
02:46 -!- mirage33529 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:46 -!- mirage33529 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe]
02:46 -!- mirage33594 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:48 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:52 -!- mirage33594 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
03:07 -!- _flood [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:08 -!- _flood [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:24 -!- sgiath- [~sgiath@2a02:25b0:aaaa:aaaa:a3c3:ed4b:6b06:0] has quit []
06:24 -!- sgiath [~sgiath@mail.sgiath.dev] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:31 < jrayhawk> what distinguishes this from every multi-master or promotable-slave SQL replication system?
08:13 -!- mirage335 [~mirage335@64.79.52.86] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:17 < muurkha> jrayhawk: merge
11:18 < muurkha> also, time travel
11:21 < jrayhawk> multi-master setups necessarily have to have merges
11:23 < fenn> i think checking out a commit is faster than replicating an entire database?
11:24 < fenn> also what you described doesn't sound intended for this sort of casual use
11:24 < fenn> so, more tools to provide convenience
11:25 < jrayhawk> i mean, there's no way to do branching and merging without thinking very hard about how to restrict the SQL data models
11:25 < jrayhawk> so it's never going to be casual, per se
11:26 < fenn> check out a running db, make some changes, test those changes. meanwhile the existing database has been running, and you don't want to throw away those changes, so you merge in your fix
11:27 < fenn> depending on the nature of the changes you may not have to think very hard
11:27 < fenn> on the other hand, you could probably just run the same update script on the running database directly
11:30 < fenn> wouldnt it be nice if we could write software so that we don't have to think real hard when doing stuff
11:37 < jrayhawk> the point at which AI solves that problem for you is the point at which your desires stop being relevant in the first place
11:40 < fenn> i was thinking more like strong type checking
11:40 < fenn> sorry for the politics, but this is highly relevant with regards to bodily autonomy: https://www.snopes.com/ap/2022/06/24/supreme-court-overturns-roe-v-wade-states-can-ban-abortion/
11:43 < jrayhawk> the conservative-majority supreme court has made a decision to prevent the supreme court from unilaterally creating law
11:43 < jrayhawk> sounds like a good norm to me
11:44 < fenn> i'm sure that was their motivation~
11:47 < jrayhawk> the fooferah around this reminds me of far-leftists who advocate for political violence or speech suppression. like, hello, the right controls military, police, fire, most of the surgeons, most of the CEOs, who do you think is going to lose if democratic norms break down in the way being advocated?
11:49 < jrayhawk> you should thank your lucky stars the gun-toting maniacs still believe in representative democracy
11:51 < muurkha> multi-master databases normally don't work with merging AFAIK; instead they work with locking or retrying transactions
11:52 < muurkha> merging means you have some way to detect conflicts and let a person decide how to resolve them
11:59 < jrayhawk> or, i guess i should rephrase that
12:00 < jrayhawk> attacking the gun-toting maniacs in power for their belief in and defense of representative democracy is instrumentally self-destructive behavior
12:08 < fenn> did you come up with that reframing yourself?
12:09 < fenn> i haven't actually read the ruling
12:10 < jrayhawk> i read the leaked decision from a month ago, i doubt much has changed
12:16 < streety> Presumably this ruling will itself be reversed the next time the composition of the supreme court swings back the other way. 
12:16 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:22 < jrayhawk> is there precedent for that?
12:24 < fenn> apparently precedents mean nothing
12:26 < streety> Isn't the ruling we're discussing precedent for that?
12:28 < jrayhawk> No?
12:41 < jrayhawk> If the right-wing SC had twiddled their pointy villain moustaches and cobbled together some politically-motivated easily-debunked incoherent decision that banned abortion altogether, *that* would've been a reasonable precedent to accuse this of being an embarassing cyclic unstable equilibrium.
12:44 < jrayhawk> instead they did the right thing and made it clear that if people want this foetal-vs-womens rights issue resolved at the federal level, they should create an actual legal framework to do it via the legislature
12:46 < streety> I've only read the linked article and not the opinions. Based on "the 1992 decision that reaffirmed the right to abortion, were wrong the day they were decided and must be overturned" and the assumption that those decisions were not "easily-debunked incoherent decision[s]" it seems like a future supreme court could just as easily overturn this ruling as Roe and this 1992 decision were overturned today
12:49 < jrayhawk> which is possible, but is there precedent? The SC's history has a lot of embarassing politicking that got later overturned, but I am having trouble thinking of anything that came back just as hard as before.
12:54 < streety> I may have misunderstood your previous question on precedent. I think you're asking whether there is precedent for yes->no->yes (or vice versa) whereas I was only thinking about yes->no or no->yes. I've no idea, I've little to no knowledge of US legal history. 
13:25 < docl> I wonder how realistic a medical privacy amendment would be, now that the SC has ruled that there is no such right where abortion is concerned
13:26 < docl> (no such right in the current version of the constitution, that is)
13:27 < docl> the right to gay marriage is also technically not in the wording of the current constitution, as I understand it
13:29 < jrayhawk> shoehorning federal law into the states via increasinly fanciful interpretations of the commerce clause has effectively obsoleted the constitution at this point
13:33 < jrayhawk> how on earth would applying medical privacy to criminal proceedings even work in principle?
13:40 < jrayhawk> This is even on-topic for this channel, given He Jiankui's imprisonment.
13:44 -!- darkie is now known as darsie
13:46 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: EnabrinTain, cc0, HD36079
13:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: cc0
13:46 -!- EnabrinTain [sid11525@helmsley.irccloud.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:54 -!- HD36079 [~joeyskmat@2001:470:69fc:105::2:2143] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:20 -!- streety [~streety@li761-24.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.6.5 - http://znc.in]
14:22 -!- streety [~streety@176-58-127-93.ip.linodeusercontent.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:26 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:57 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:46 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:54 -!- Hooloovoo [~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:56 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
21:19 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:58 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Sat Jun 25 00:00:02 2022