--- Log opened Thu May 16 00:00:56 2024
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04:07 < nsh> .m https://twitter.com/lukas_m_ziegler/status/1790648380080722323
04:07 < AugustaAva> ​twitter: <lukas_m_ziegler> Robots with the help of neuroimplants helped a paralyzed man! 🦾 ␤  ␤ A 76-year-old paralyzed man has made history by using his thoughts to write 8 Chinese characters!  ␤  ␤ This incredible feat marks the first successful use of Zhejiang University's brain implants to enable writing https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1790648307510853633/pu/vid/avc1/852x480/I7hzY6PzXM2j-3Ss.mp4?tag=12
04:27 < fenn> .m https://twitter.com/getnormality/status/1790942454688145484
04:27 < AugustaAva> ​twitter: <getnormality> hey guys, the paper that introduced dropout regularization has the wildest motivation section ever to appear in a scientific paper. seriously, drop everything and read this immediately <jmlr.org/papers/volume1… https://t.co/kUCPlLy1DM> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNq0Dm8awAAsW7Z.png
04:27 < fenn> well it's an interesting perspective on evolution anyway
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04:36 < fenn> english transcript of the first twitter link: https://fennetic.net/whisper/zhejiang_brain_implant/1790648307510853633_I7hzY6PzXM2j-3Ss.txt
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05:27 < hprmbridge> kanzure>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1240641828030644305/GNq0Dm8awAAsW7Z.png?ex=66474d3d&is=6645fbbd&hm=e3936cebaed6b78d3615428f5f1aa21ea1d74f35841595ac1173d9d5ea108103&
05:30 < kanzure> "There's an insect border between Colombia and Panama to keep the screw-worm fly out of North America, which involves dropping 14.7 million sterilised screw-worms over the rainforest *every week*" 
05:30 < kanzure> why not just drop them everywhere? or did we figure out they were important to the ecosystem somehow?
05:39 < fenn> even if they are, screw 'em
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08:56 < hprmbridge> soul_syrup> we are trying to adapt to the changing world, and I would like to ask everyone, what are your ideas of a project that would be necessary to work on? Taking into account that there is economic collapse occuring in many western countries, as well as mass job automation(both AI and robotic) and layoffs, and resource concentration in the ruling class. Remembering that corporate/consumer buying power
08:56 < hprmbridge> soul_syrup> is also tumbling, so the project would likely be something more for "the people". Not looking for weird pro capitalist/jewish commentary
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09:41 < kanzure> what?
11:22 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> I don't understand the hype with brain interfaces beyond short-term medical treatment. Humanity should focus on biological evolution because we are the ultimate computers we ever know. Why would we spend time on implants, VRs and stupid computers when we can modify ourself to become much greater computers. AlphaFold is the most amazing piece of technology today but we are hyped by mind killer
11:22 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> tech. Sometimes I stupidly think that fixing money we can fix humans. The truth is humans don't need nor want to be saved, transhumans need to save themself on individual and tribe level if they find power, inteligence and motivation to make it. Here is 1mm cubic of brain. You need to be idiot to not get it how dumb is the brain interface idea for enhance human intelligence.
11:22 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1240731216295100456/full-scan-of-1-cubic-millimeter-of-brain-tissue-took-1-4-v0-wWBKC5jy8TrOPM10UCfTlUoHjJ3nuPj4XMbSIbaOuBI.jpg.webp?ex=6647a07d&is=66464efd&hm=70fe7e0acc00e36d500d2d8df8b5bc705c89e4419da868fa5397b12d415ccb9e&
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11:31 < fenn> because brains are horribly bandwidth constrained. look at me, i'm twitching meat appendages to push on buttons corresponding to not even a byte worth of output
11:32 < hprmbridge> Lev> Also, nvm the fact that the brain is a bundle of ASICs
11:32 < hprmbridge> Lev> gl rewriting it to do something useful
11:32 < hprmbridge> Lev> And gl preserving the person in any capacity who that's done to
11:32 < fenn> it's a feature
11:33 < fenn> big danger of robots is when their eyes turn red
11:33 < hprmbridge> Lev> like even on the energy efficiency scale, brains aren't that great
11:33 < hprmbridge> Lev> they're good, don't get me wrong
11:33 < hprmbridge> Lev> optimal? hell no
11:48 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> Good luck interfacing with in this primitive way. There are so many way to manipulate electromagnetic fields beyond semiconductors. But even if we want to rely on the semiconducting property, there is nothing fundamentally that can stop us to genetically evolve into organically growing a semiconductor structure in our tissues wired with visual cortex, endocrine system etc. It's proteine folding
11:48 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> knowledge that empower us to create polymer structures, molecular structures that can be semiconductors. Anyway, semiconductivity is highly over rated. It's so 20st century
11:48 < hprmbridge> Lev> i mean i'm not all about CMOS either
11:48 < hprmbridge> Lev> but it's not like alternatives don't exist lol
11:49 < hprmbridge> Lev> 'semiconductivity is so 20st century' no more electromagnetism for anyone anymore boys
11:51 < hprmbridge> Lev> personally i'm a fan of RSFQ and mQCA as alternatives
11:54 < fenn> plz expand un-googlable acronym mQCA
11:54 < hprmbridge> Lev> molecular Quantum Cellular Automata
11:55 < hprmbridge> Lev> they're not actually cellular automata per say
11:55 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> I make a bet, these interfaces will pooorly decode/encode and interface with our mind. Will not be able to capture em field sensitive enough to classify too much. Sure, they can interface with some useful patterns, but not engoung to boost our intelligence.
11:55 < hprmbridge> Lev> We'll need a better understanding of how memories are stored either way
11:56 < hprmbridge> Lev> The only thing you'll achieve if you just start randomly evolving additions to an existing mind is shoggoth
11:56 < hprmbridge> Lev> that or a corpse
11:56 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> do you think semiconductivity is the apogee of electromagnetism? em fields and all fields are way way more powerful than boring semiconductivity
11:57 < hprmbridge> Lev> ofc not but do you think that they won't be used in these "apogees of electromagnetism" as you say
11:57 < hprmbridge> Lev> It's not that simplistic of a model
11:57 < hprmbridge> Lev> there's no one apogee, there's gonna be doped semiconductors in an mQCA array (probably)
11:58 < hprmbridge> Lev> will they be the main component? probably not, we'll see, but maybe
11:58 < hprmbridge> Lev> will they probably be involved? i'm willing to put money on yes
11:58 < hprmbridge> Lev> and this applies to <insert future tech here>
11:59 < hprmbridge> Lev> organics isn't magically more efficient
11:59 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Brains are likely 1-3 OOM off optimality for non-reversible computing if you take into account information transfer iirc
11:59 < fenn> self replicating is very scalable (cheap)
12:00 < hprmbridge> Lev> if you haven't seen the DNA bricks paper at some point its worth a read
12:00 < fenn> the obsession with energy efficiency is counterproductive
12:01 < hprmbridge> Lev> ehhh there's a certain correspondence between wasted heat and wasted compute work
12:01 < hprmbridge> harmoniq.punk> quantum approach today is absolutely idiotic because we don't understand quantum physics. After 100 years we still looking and talking about entanglement like a "spooky action at the distance". Fuck of, there is nothing spooky, it works like any state machine works when the state is changed.
12:01 < hprmbridge> Lev> wat
12:01 < fenn> so what if it takes 1000x the energy of a human brain, it's still not occupying land, it doesn't need to be pampered and have medical care and fancy food and play status games with the joneses
12:02 < hprmbridge> Lev> ok let's just ignore 70(?) years of bell tests
12:02 < geneh2> BCIs could let people use computers more effectively.
12:02 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> True a GPU array is cheaper to run than a human even with bad energy efficiency. However energy becomes your main cost center if you amotorise as your setups lifespan increase and manufacturing costs drop
12:02 < hprmbridge> Lev> I lied 52 years of bell tests
12:04 < fenn> is entanglement just a zero knowledge proof
12:04 < hprmbridge> Lev> I like to think of it as secret sharing
12:04 < hprmbridge> Lev> but alonzo likes to tell me i'm an idiot
12:04 < hprmbridge> Lev> and he's not wrong
12:05 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Entanglement isn't that spooky it's nature is fairly well understood as non factorisable states of a Hilbert space. If you just do the calculations there's nothing that'll surprise you, the discussions on the nature of wave function collapse are purely metaphysical pontificating unless we've got some actual proof for a violation of unitarity
12:07 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> The exact details of quantum gravity might reveal entanglement has something deeper to it such as if ER=EPR turns out to be true.
12:08 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Anyways mQCA are quantum in name only they use quantum effects but they're not quantum computers that maintain a coherence of an entangled state they're kinda more like a clocked ising model or spin glass
12:08 < hprmbridge> Lev> They're ising with quantum noise
12:08 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> The implementation exploits quantum effects because they're there and can be exploited
12:09 < hprmbridge> Lev> sometimes a circuit gets fucked because of quantum effects, but generally it's very "dominoes tip" kind of basic
12:09 < fenn> "A possible resolution to the paradox is to assume that quantum theory is incomplete, and the result of measurements depends on predetermined "hidden variables". The state of the particles being measured contains some hidden variables, whose values effectively determine, right from the moment of separation, what the outcomes of the spin measurements are going to be. This would mean that each
12:09 < fenn> particle carries all the required information with it, and nothing needs to be transmitted from one particle to the other at the time of measurement."
12:10 < hprmbridge> Lev> There's various no go theorems (nielson-ninoyama?) that constrain which types of hidden variable theories are possible
12:10 < hprmbridge> Lev> iirc
12:10 < hprmbridge> Lev> ninomiya***
12:11 < hprmbridge> Lev> actually i might be misremembering the applicability of that theorem
12:12 < hprmbridge> Lev> Ye i think i'm misremembering that's a different one
12:12 < hprmbridge> Lev> but still there's some no-go theorems
12:14 < fenn> well as usual i don't get it. sorry for asking, i don't think i'm going to be studying quantum theory today
12:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah hidden variable theories are a thing and they've got a lot of constraint proofs. There's also superdetermenism which I don't find particularly appealing. It's mostly metaphysics unless we find something really unexpected. It's mostly just easier to "shut up an calculate"
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12:16 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> I am also what could be tentatively called bio accelerationist, but why narrow our scope? we can do both.
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12:17 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> I don't like the term because Yud has no hand in this
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12:18 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> @Lev Oh it's also worth noting there's some violation of unitarity in our model of beta decay at high energies iirc but the suspicion is that it's likely due to issues with the formalisation of QFT
12:19 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Oh wait no it's the fermi theory of beta decay that has the unitarity violation I think QFT is okay
12:19 < hprmbridge> Lev> sauces? i wanna see how they calculated
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12:19 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> ah, I really need to get to physics someday so I can understand your conversation
12:20 < kanzure> welcome pinkbearer
12:20 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> O/
12:21 < hprmbridge> Lev> don't worry it's 30% actual understanding, 60% 'i remember those fancy words magic man and i can google them, and 40% 'one day i will get this'
12:21 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~pgl/SMB/529/Lecture_notes/LN17_SM.pdf iirc I read it here it's basically just the theory isn't renormalizable
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12:22 < hprmbridge> Lev> i was more wondering about perturbative approximation error ngl but i'll give it a read and see if i understand anything
12:22 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> lmao it's nerdsniping me because my talent lies in politics and wordceling, but it frustrates me to not know what alpha particles or QFT are immensely
12:22 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> neway back to lurking
12:22 < hprmbridge> Lev> o7
12:23 < kanzure> pinkbearer: what is the intersection between politics and bio-accelerationism?
12:26 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Tbh I think the issues of non-renormalisability come from the infinitely many degrees of freedom in compact regions of space. Blackhole entropy kinda tells us that any reasonable theory would have a mechanism to cutoff the integrals. You can only fit so many bosons in a box before it collapses to a black hole after all
12:26 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> given an understanding of the mostly genetic basis for human behavior, and the observation of what higher quality stock is capable of, it stands that the best way to improve a nation is first and foremost to improve its people
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12:29 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> the peoples' genetic quality, that is
12:32 < kanzure> pinkbearer: can you provide political cover for that, or no? like if we were to roll out widely/commercially available human embryo engineering.
12:32 < kanzure> "Moore's 2nd Law states that the cost of a semiconductor fab doubles about every four years. In the early 1970s a fab cost just $4M to build. Today, modern fabs cost up to $25B" https://www.construction-physics.com/p/how-to-build-a-20-billion-semiconductor
12:34 < kanzure> for some reason that author charges for his reading list of books related to his blog post but his thumbnail shows it all anyway if you get to the cdn? 
12:34 < hprmbridge> kanzure>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1240749353665171467/806268ed-964e-40a1-9ffd-d221048a0e0a_845x1025.png?ex=6647b161&is=66465fe1&hm=4c3139d9a1167d889dea549393350d5333bb60a25ae48aede3fcf862ebb60fb8&
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12:35 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> what exactly are you asking here, just to be clear? like how to expand even with the expected rising cost of human engineering?
12:36 < hprmbridge> kanzure> @pinkbearer no, political cover and acceptance for https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612838/the-transhumanist-diy-designer-baby-funded-with-bitcoin/
12:45 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> ah, makes more sense. yeah that's the biggest barrier - acceptance of these ideas.
12:45 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> The current public "discourse" is almost inhospitable to this. The average idly thinks "eugenics" and then associates that with "hitler, nazi, bad". The media isn't much better and their opinions will trickle down. It's obviously completely incompatible with any large movement on the left, and most on the right - it is something entirely new outside that centuries old framework. However, if you
12:45 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> can find just one suitable environment and produce highlightable results, then acceptance will spread. People want successful, healthy, smart, tall children.
12:45 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> the guy in the article has the right idea, though there are other paths, I believe.
12:46 < fenn> it's only incompatible with the left for as long as they ignore reality
12:46 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> America has had successful movements in this vein before - they were cut short by infamous incompetence, conflicts of interest, etc. These are many of the same types of people who consider themselves "left" today
12:47 < fenn> fortunately, having an actual solution to formerly impossible problems makes the denial go away
12:47 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> the left's core is basically zealots at this point, there is no convinving them without results
12:48 < fenn> bit of a chicken and egg problem though
12:48 < kanzure> we are that guy in the article.
12:48 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> yeah... it's frustrating
12:48 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> metaphorically or literally?
12:48 < kanzure> literally
12:49 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> Hello
12:49 < kanzure> this group/channel/discord has other projects too https://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap
12:50 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> right, right
12:50 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> I let this group languish in my servers so long I forgot why I joined it
12:53 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> If you are actually the guys in the article, that’s very good work you’re doing. I personally believe crafting an ideology to fuel its growth will help, which goes more into politics, but a multifaceted approach is great
12:53 < kanzure> start a cult?
12:54 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> Yeah we need people motivated by quasi-religious zeal. Environmentalists scored many victories through a similar persistence and public campaign
12:55 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> But of course it needs to be on another level. This is the improvement of the human race, not an endangered bug
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13:05 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> Basically, I don’t want human engineering to be the sole domain of the wealthy and powerful to only further cement their position, which is what I fear more corporate/start-up ventures may turn into. I wish for the elevation of all races and people. The “renaissance man” became impossible, for as he stood at the top of human knowledge, it soon outpaced him and required even higher abilities. as
13:05 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> information and fields multiply, so we must rush to meet it
13:07 < specing> I want to go on an anti-spycord crusade
13:07 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> For all that to occur I believe in proselytizing the masses, the common man should think of this like he thinks of “saving the amazon” or “promoting equality”
13:07 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> That is, self evidently good things to be pursued
13:08 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> Lol same I am on this account mostly to archive a private server so I don’t have to use it anymore
13:08  * specing hammers pinkbearer on a cross
13:10 < hprmbridge> pinkbearer> lol
13:16  * specing burns hprmbridge
13:16 < specing> DEUS VULT
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15:21 < L29Ah> do i get it right that men get dumber quicker with age than women?
19:08 < jrayhawk> https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10072-021-05644-x https://academic.oup.com/psychsocgerontology/article/61/2/S107/558398 observationally the opposite is true, but the effect size is tiny and not really worth thinking particularly hard about
19:09 < jrayhawk> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35811518 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37355891 there are much more interesting effect sizes to be had
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--- Log closed Fri May 17 00:00:57 2024