--- Log opened Sun Nov 03 00:00:39 2024
00:05 < fenn> @thatchemist sounds like a unit error, please show your calculations
00:06 < fenn> also your generator won't last forever
00:07 < fenn> also the sun's right there
00:12 < fenn> i might believe you were onto something if you were growing methanotrophic microbes and feeding them to the fish
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01:58 < L29Ah> alonzoc: if you know how to improve it, why don't you do it and put the HFT industry out of the business?
02:00 < L29Ah> geraldmahony: what for? do you need to certify the order of production of scientific papers?
02:10 < fenn> just timestamp them on the bitcoin blockchain
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04:18 < pasky> curious what people here think about LLM-based mind uploading - https://twitter.com/xpasky/status/1853043097237627012
05:23 < hprmbridge> Lev> some of us (me) enjoy the kind of programming where we do nothing but sit and optimize queues until you can process 10 gbps worth of txs on a consumer cpu
05:23 < hprmbridge> Lev> that doesn't preclude me from also thinking it's a waste of time that I could spend on more interesting things
05:26 < hprmbridge> Lev> ...is Claude going the Replika.ai route because yikes
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05:52 < nsh> imagination is a heckuva drug 
05:53 < nsh> "I don't believe in consciousness much, and I posit humans aren't that complicated beyond their common context."
05:53 < nsh> rare to see someone cheapen themselves so open, brazenly and proudly
05:54 < nsh> this is what happens when you watch tv and think it's real
05:55 < nsh> petr, you have a human soul, encompassing infinite wonders. i'm sorry you didn't get born in time to appreciate this before it went out of fashion
05:55 < nsh> this person not only has a job but is has the jobiest job in his job
05:55 < nsh> -is
05:56 < nsh> "80% fidelity is fine, I won't mind if 20% is infilled with idealized me. I'm at least 10% different every decade anyway."
05:56 < nsh> at this point i'm seriously considering a licensing system for statistics
05:57 < nsh> people are starting to bring mathematics into disrepute with their misuses
06:01 < nsh> .t https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-music-eu-red-tape-starmer-b2635677.html
06:01 < saxo> Post-Brexit red tape puts classical music industry under threat, top soprano warns | The Independent
06:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> actually there is a startup trying to do uploading via biological parameters -> LLM parameters and I think that's awesome.
06:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> lower complexity doesn't mean you lose access to nsh's infinite wonders he is lying to you
06:10 < pasky> Ohh interesting. It's fascinating to see that framed as "cheapening oneself", that literally did not occur to me at all. My self-worth isn't tied to how complicated I am but to what impact I have on others (and how much personal happiness can I reach in the process).
06:10 < nsh> (lying has a definition and it doesn't extend to scepticism)
06:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> okay now I will be nsh and tell you to not cheapen your self-worth by defining it with words 🙂
06:11 < nsh> petr is happy if he can have a petr parrot
06:11 < nsh> everyone loves their reflection. this is so much of a cliche that it entered the dictionary
06:12 < nsh> via the myth of narssisus
06:12 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what is biology but sustained self-reflection thru metabolic activity
06:12 < nsh> but the parrot will not be 80% of anything
06:12 < nsh> and to feel comfortable enough to use such terms is telling on yourself
06:12 < nsh> and not about having comprehended what it is that these things do
06:12 < pasky> now I start suspecting you did not mean "soul" as a metaphor but you might believe in it as an actual independently existing entity...?
06:13 < nsh> soul is where the blues and shakespeare come from 
06:13 < pasky> okay...?
06:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> no not okay
06:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> L29Ah: It is a project of mine but atm I don't have time, and setting up a regulated exchange for stocks has lots of legal red-tape etc. While for crypto monetisation is something i'm not settled on. The basic gist for anyone interested in market design, you take N parties interested in trading on some pair they then submit sealed bids and offers at amounts and run a multi-party computation
06:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> protocol to create a settlement transaction which only reveals to the participents (1) if their order got partially filled and (2) how much and at what price.
06:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> The design is similar to a darkpool, in darkpools you have an external price oracle and you take a stream of buyers and sellers in a pair of order queues and match them at the current price. However I don't want to rely on an external price oracle so instead you simulate a 1-round orderbook generating a settlement transaction.
06:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> You then have some L1 network which takes these settlement transactions. Because the settlements are just payments there is no sequencing MEV which means the only "strategy" is in trade execution, which for a market setup like this with almost no information leakage is analytically solvable for.
06:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> There are some technical questions i've not yet resolved the settlement layer (L1 or rollup) would need to have atleast masked balances and there are some DOS vectors to work out. @Lev has commented a lot on this
06:15 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Downside for most market participents is such a market would have no public price feed or any public data. The only way to see the price things are trading at is to do a trade and see what your execution price was
06:16 < hprmbridge> kanzure> i worked for a startup trying that a long time ago, dark pool auction mechanics for crypto.
06:17 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Oh cool, it's not a completely unique idea
06:17 < pasky> nsh: On a meta level the interesting thing for me is that you are taking that stance as a moral category, if I follow you. That this would be a *moral* question didn't occur to me at all, though. (Again, I'd judge people's morality purely on their impact on their surrounding, not by their opinion on consciousness.)
06:17 < pasky> I suspect that's the underlying world view difference.
06:18 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Main thing that motivated my thoughts on this was that the whole "on-chain liquidity pool" setup is just... kinda dumb imo. MEV doesn't exist when sequencing settlement transactions but we have MEV now because of poor market design
06:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I still judge you for the time you spent on that madness... what was the final number of nanoseconds per tx?
06:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> *amotorized nanoseconds
06:22 < hprmbridge> Lev> It was what, 1.4 ns per tx?
06:23 < hprmbridge> Lev> smth like that
06:23 < hprmbridge> Lev> The thing is you were completely right, like I have it but it's been over a yr and a half and I have yet to actually use it anywhere at all
09:39 < pasky> kanzure: do you know the name of that biological parameters -> LLM startup? i can't find it easily
09:48 < hprmbridge> kanzure> yes
10:18 < pasky> what is it?
10:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> Signal me
10:21 < pasky> oh it's stealth? no worries then! (i don't use signal, but wouldn't act on the info now anyway)
11:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> join them!
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11:31 < pasky> i'm still pretty busy with my thing
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 04 00:00:40 2024