--- Log opened Tue Dec 10 00:00:14 2024
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21:38 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Measuring competing outcomes of a single-molecule reaction reveals classical Arrhenius chemical kinetics" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-54677-1
22:04 < docl> The Multiscale Wisdom of the Body: Collective Intelligence as a Tractable Interface for Next-Generation Biomedicine // https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/bies.202400196
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22:54 < docl> I did a rough calculation comparing the surface area of synapses (10 meters, give or take) to the total membrane area of all cells in the body (2000 or so square meters). there's room in membranes to store quite a lot of data as variation in cell wall thickness or ion channel positioning.
22:54 < docl> "Electro-active polymer hydrogels exhibit emergent memory when embodied in a simulated game environment" https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-physical-science/fulltext/S2666-3864(24)00436-3
22:57 < docl> cell wall thickness can vary slightly because you have a broad variety of lipids with a hydrophibic head/hydrophillic tail. in principle, these could be shuffled around be bioelectric activity. and of course these connect to the cytoskeleton which (is highly structurally complex and dynamic and) determines cell shape and transmits forces to the nucleus
22:58 < hprmbridge> kanzure> see also https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/physical-intelligence/Fabrication%20and%20programming%20of%20large%20physically%20evolving%20networks%20-%20Hubler%20-%202011.pdf
23:00 < docl> I think the "intelligence" levin refers to is more to do with stress response and maybe development, not like long term conscious memory though. most cells run into issues transmitting signals remotely unless they go through neural channels, as chemical and weak bioelectric signals get noisy with distance. smaller organisms and embryos could rely less on strictly neural information channels though
23:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> meh, even tiny cells can have complex state machines with room for local learning
23:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> neuronal ability is merely an elaboration on non-neuronal ability
23:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> see also polycomputing.ps https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/physical-intelligence/
23:02 < docl> interesting
23:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> and https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/ai/The%20molecular%20memory%20code%20and%20synaptic%20plasticity:%20A%20synthesis%20-%20Gershamn%20-%202023.pdf
--- Log closed Wed Dec 11 00:00:15 2024