--- Log opened Sun Dec 15 00:00:19 2024
00:00 < fenn> .t https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ads9158
00:00 < saxo> Just a moment...
00:01 < fenn> "risks of mirror life"
00:01 < fenn> via jason crawford https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/y8ysGMphfoFTXZcYp/biological-risk-from-the-mirror-world
00:01 < fenn> it has always been my position that making mirror life is an amazingly bad idea
00:03 < fenn> i don't support the wholesale banning of enabling technologies
00:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> あなたはこの地球上での自分の存在がいかに取るに足りないものであるか気づいたことがありますか？ https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1868011048978321511
00:30 < fenn> the mirror life article focuses too much on pathogenicity and not enough on the persistent organic pollutants angle
00:33 < fenn> "Penicillin only kills bacteria and does not hurt eukaryotes like fungi or humans. This way the Penicillium fungi avoids poisoning itself.
00:33 < fenn> The mirror bacteria might evolve deadly poisons against all lifeforms with the opposite chirality, without having to worry about poisoning themselves due to the chirality difference."
00:34 < fenn> regular components of their metabolism could easily act as such poisons due to a simple slight incompatibility with a key metabolic enzyme
00:35 < fenn> not against "all" lifeforms, because then the reverse would necessarily be true and the mirror bacteria would die instantly in the wild, being surrounded by such mirror poisons
00:36 < fenn> but say a bacterial mirror vitamin poisons all eukaryotes
00:43 < fenn> pursuing a research program on mirror protein or mirror peptide therapeutics strongly incentivizes the creation of mirror cells to synthesize them, so that's also a bad idea
02:12 < hprmbridge> kanzure> so far "the man from the future" has been really bad, wow
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06:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Mirror life scare seems like a grift. Someone is trying to generate hype for grants/funding. Even if it is true, scientists have managed to synthesis like, 5 of the thousands of proteins in bacteria and then one would need to create a synthetic cell which is 200 years away"
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06:11 < fenn> it's not a grift it's just people realizing that they were dumb
06:11 < fenn> it's a call to restrict funding
06:12 < fenn> i don't think it's that hard to do, just a lot of pieces
06:14 < jrayhawk> the question of "what is the minimum viable protein set" is a good one to investigate
06:14 < fenn> ok the part about studying countermeasures seems grifty
06:15 < fenn> better to do general purpose research on phage therapy
06:17 < fenn> re minimum viable set, many of the authors on the risks of mirror life paper are doing the minimal synthetic cell project already
06:17 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/understanding-ayn-randianism/
06:17 < fenn> why are you linking ayn rand stuff
06:17 < fenn> as if nobody has ever heard of it
06:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> disclaimer i have had no sleep in several days
06:19 < fenn> ah
06:21 < jrayhawk> yeah, this article is all fnord and could be written about any person and any philosophy
06:22 < hprmbridge> kanzure> build the cult.
06:22 < hprmbridge> kanzure> conference theme this year will be pitch your cult
06:24 < fenn> count me out
06:24 < hprmbridge> kanzure> alternative?
06:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> hereticon was pretty lame, it was all mainstream
06:25 < fenn> i dunno, just feeling feeble atm
06:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> and not productively building snything
06:26 < hprmbridge> kanzure> careful or i will send for you for an additional visit
06:26 < hprmbridge> kanzure> are you presently in dire need of safety detox
06:27 < fenn> i haven't talked to any rationalists for months
06:27 < hprmbridge> kanzure> oh what happened? was there a venture?
06:28 < fenn> it exploded due to a failure of cat herding, disagreement about goals, and mental illness
06:29 < hprmbridge> kanzure> many such cases
06:29 < fenn> representative of the future as far as i can see
06:30 < fenn> with greater minds comes greater possible disagreement
06:31 < fenn> everyone just assumes value convergence with no justification for that belief
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06:36 < jrayhawk> not enough babysitters and patrons to go around
06:37 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what's the alternative, hog trading against everyone's mutually weird values?
06:38 < fenn> eternal strife, VR, black hole diving, accelerating at the speed of light in a random direction
06:38 < jrayhawk> as they say, "money is the fundamental unit of caring"; that's the means of granting fungibility to value systems such that value can be exchanged
06:39 < fenn> um no
06:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure> but what about (random excuse here to never leave earth)
06:40 < jrayhawk> but, of course, mentally ill people have problems with having and negotiating values
06:41 < fenn> i was mostly talking about superintelligent AI
06:42 < fenn> we have a nice head start on alignment by initializing our AI with human values by virtue of the training data consisting mostly of human generated content
06:43 < fenn> in comparison to the space of possible minds, (mentally ill) humans are all fairly similar
06:44 < fenn> in comparison to the space of human minds, the desires of roly poly bugs are all fairly similar
06:45 < fenn> you poke them, they curl up. they eat moldy twigs and dust, and lay eggs
06:46 < fenn> we share some desires with roly poly bugs but for the most part human disagreements aren't about the things we share with roly poly bugs
06:49  * L29Ah throws superintelligent AIs at fenn
07:10 < fenn> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_RZJUAQY4
07:10 < saxo> Cannot get a title from YouTube, soz
07:10 < fenn> lame
07:10 < fenn> "A two-year-old's solution to the trolley problem"
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07:26 < jrayhawk> that's weird. the title is trivial to parse.
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20:19 < hprmbridge> Eli>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1318069986236829727/IMG_0924.jpg?ex=6760fbd5&is=675faa55&hm=a69d4a7e5edc8eb3b522485e1b229222c45488bb74d2440388c658813e5f2181&
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--- Log closed Mon Dec 16 00:00:20 2024