--- Log opened Tue Dec 17 00:00:21 2024
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01:37 < fenn> stocking stuffers https://ebay.com/itm/144720020998
01:38 < fenn> gee thanks fenn, i never would have gotten this for myself
02:01  * L29Ah still doesn't have any because it's too hard to imagine the case where my great collection of ropey stuff and rubbery stuff won't suffice
02:18 < fenn> the case where you're not anywhere near your collection
02:22 < L29Ah> fenn: i carry a first aid kit that contains an omnifix bandage and a headband (for a flashlight)
02:24 < nsh> kanzure, last iMax showing of what?
02:29 < hprmbridge> kanzure> mcconaughey’s excellent space and/or cornfield adventure
02:30 < nsh> ah, ty
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05:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> fenn: you don't need to use shapley values for your "moral utility" but the point was that in "nature" coalitions of very different values can form.
05:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> For a egalitarian utility function individuals empowerment functions aggregated by a social choice function which is invariant under permutation of utilities would give you it. Something like Nash bargaining where the fallback option is randomly choosing an individual and optimising their utility seems to have all the properties one would want I've seen it used in places so this approach is
05:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> probably classified as "mathematical folklore" but it normalises utilities gives you all the Nash bargaining axioms and is egalitarian
05:33 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> (God that was poorly written)
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12:41 < kanzure> what was the specific argument against mirror humans the other day?
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13:11 < nsh> pathogens
13:13 < nsh> kinda gray goo situation with low probability but potentially unbounded unfunability
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13:14 < nsh> perhaps similar argument in form to that in ice-7 and similar (i recall something about a lower-energy vacuum state being created and spreading out, perhaps in a Gren Egan book)
13:15 < nsh> would seem like a solid entropic counter-argument could be made but i'm not against restraint on principle as with bioweapons 
13:19 < andytoshi> the claim was that mirror pathogens could reproduce in our bodies but our immune system couldn't stop them from doing so
13:24 < nsh> it's just very hard to square the idea of their anti-immune advantage being stronger than their metabolic disadvantage with the received theories of their not prevailing today
13:25 < nsh> though you could imagine they might be outcompeted in an environment without complex life but not one with it
13:25 < nsh> idk
13:26 < superkuh> So... a mirror human would die to normal non-mirror pathogens.
13:27 < L29Ah> let's start with DNA encryption
13:27 < superkuh> If the normal humans and civilization had not first died from the widespread use of the technology to create mirror microbes decades before mirror humans were possible.
13:27 < L29Ah> mirror life can wait
13:29 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> nsh: Ahh yes false vacuum decay the stuff of nightmares you'll never see coming so should probably just ignore. We still don't know whether or not our higgs field is stable or just meta-stable
13:30 < L29Ah> also mirror humans will fail to reproduce with normal humans, reducing gene pools of both
13:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> All i'm hearing is that mirror humans are perfect for implementing bladerunner
13:33 < L29Ah> BORING
13:35 < nsh> alonzoc, i expect if metastable it would be with period so vast as hardly worth worrying about. (though we'd perhaps not have an evidence for it as we have for mere planetary cataclysms.)
13:35 < nsh> *any
13:36 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah current measurements say we are likely in the metastable region but the lifetime of the universe is something 10^161 years with large variance given the measurement unceirtanty of the relevant constants. But it's a random tunneling process
13:36 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> not really worth worrying about
13:37 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> relevant paper for those interested: https://arxiv.org/abs/1707.08124
13:37  * nsh nods
13:38 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> we are also really close to the stability boundry in the grand scheme of things. I wonder if it's explainable with the anthropic principle or is actually a big coincidence
13:40 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> condition on the universe lasting atleast 13.7 billion years and compare with the surprisal relative to our observations. Doing it properly would likely require you finding a natural prior (Jeffery's prior) on the parameter space which would probably be a project in of itself
13:43 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> nsh: yeah when it comes to any universe scale catastrophe you can kinda work with a prior that your expected lifetime is atleast 13.7 billion years
13:45 < nsh> hadn't heard of Jeffrey's prior. thanks!
13:47 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Really good if you are working with regular statistical models. For hierachical models with singular parameter space fisher-rao breaks down and the prior vanishes on subspaces which you'd think occam's razor would prefer
13:49 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Best example of that is the parameter space of a mixture model of two unit variance 1d normal distributions at points where the means of the two distributions are equal the curvature becomes degenerate and the jeffery's prior tends to zero. which feels odd when you think of jeffery as a kind of simplicity prior.
13:51 < nsh> hmm, a little beyond me but appreciated :)
14:51 < superkuh> https://arxiv.org/abs/2411.13164 "Cyborg Insect Factory: Automatic Assembly System to Build up Insect-computer Hybrid Robot Based on Vision-guided Robotic Arm Manipulation of Custom Bipolar Electrodes"
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17:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.voxon.co/product-page/voxon-vx2
18:22 < hprmbridge> kanzure> oh it's ken silverman https://80.lv/articles/voxon-vx1-a-volumetric-display-that-shows-3d-models-as-holograms/
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21:03 < fenn> holding a white plate with marker tracking under a projector gets you a pretty good feeling for a slice of volume
21:14 < fenn> maybe a tablet with a camera can track its own position in space now
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21:37 < fenn> so the futurama heads in jars were really just uploaded 3d simulations after all: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/994160_7dbcf9cad4744fef95986b7530c99523~mv2.jpg
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--- Log closed Wed Dec 18 00:00:22 2024