--- Log opened Thu Mar 13 00:00:44 2025
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06:52 < hprmbridge> Eli> Ok, so 3d genome change is just the term used for methylation/acetylation?
07:09 < fenn> i've never heard the term before yesterday but it seems more general than that
07:10 < fenn> literally the physical shape of the DNA in 3D space
07:18 < NewtonTrendy> does anyone have any interesting studies or scientific papers i can read/summaries as sources for an episode on longevity denial
07:18 < NewtonTrendy> sorry for my bad spelling, generally
07:21 < NewtonTrendy> https://www.perplexity.ai/search/please-suggest-some-highly-rel-gETehEpyQreNXUj6SIaH2g
07:29 < jrayhawk> not sure what "longevity denial" means, but https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3476836/ is a good meta-analysis on calorie restriction in rodents that gives a good indiction of how much charlatanry is present within the longevity industry
07:30 < L29Ah> NewtonTrendy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-aging_trance
07:46 < NewtonTrendy> thanks L29Ah 
08:19 < fenn> what's this? a transhumanist article on wikipedia that hasn't been gutted and/or deleted yet?
08:21 < L29Ah> i don't see any specific hatred towards transhumanism in wikipedia
08:22 < L29Ah> the article is over 15 years old
08:23 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Pro-aging_trance_(2nd_nomination)
08:24 < fenn> none of the usual people, that's why
08:24 < fenn> maybe they don't consider anti-aging part of the package
08:57 < NewtonTrendy> i think we need more focus on the fact that deciding to die when its an option not to is suicidal, and denying clear evidence for no rational reason is possibly psychosis
08:58 < NewtonTrendy> sabotaging others, being mean for pejudiced reasons based on the above, is a problem, it feels
08:59 < NewtonTrendy> my shorts havent got that many views but seem even more successful than the podcast
09:25 < RangerMauve> I think it's okay for folks to want to die when they reach old age even if they're not likely to die soon. I know a lot of folks that don't really want to live forever.
09:38 < L29Ah> NewtonTrendy: i'd be wary of relying on psychiatrical labels too much, or you risk being labeled psychotically out of touch with reality of imminent aging and death
09:38 < L29Ah> immortality is about choice, if anything
09:39 < L29Ah> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety#Sex i wonder how much of the longevity asymmetry this accounts for
10:40 < ike8> females are more anxious in general
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13:02 < NewtonTrendy> thank you all for the time and tips, seriously
13:14 < TMA> life certainly feels like a punishment sometimes. refraining from living indefinitely might feel like shortening the time spent in jail. shaming people by labeling such passive death wish as suicidal might make them hurt even more and tripping them to some form of more active death seeking
13:35 < L29Ah> suicidal people are a threat to people around them and are social structures' burden/corruptors as well
13:35 < L29Ah> shorter your life is, more things around you are a zero-sum game
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15:54 < NewtonTrendy> also specific thanks to jrayhawk and apologies i didnt read properly
16:03 < NewtonTrendy> jrayhawk: i read that study and it doesnt seem to show what you say, but thanks anyway
16:05 < NewtonTrendy> i actually dont understand the words you used, i thought you said charletanism, "Charlatanry" refers to the practice or act of pretending to have knowledge or skills that one does not possess, often for the purpose of deception or fraud. 
16:05 < NewtonTrendy> so why would it be relevant if they knew about life extension mechanisms if that wasn't the purpose of the experiment?
16:09 < jrayhawk> I have never met anyone in the longevity industry who didn't try to lie to me about the state of calorie restriction science.
16:11 < NewtonTrendy> in what way did they lie? did they say calory restriction didnt extend lifespan?
16:11 < NewtonTrendy> i think its getting hungry *sometimes* that increases lifespan, as well as *differences* in temperature etc
16:12 < jrayhawk> They said it *did*.
16:15 < NewtonTrendy> ok, well i dont know what you are saying im afraid, i guess you are going against the idea that occasional calory restriction increases lifespan, which is does, and the study backs up. im mainly wondering what you are trying to say. But this excercise has me curious if the differing mindset between genders is the main factor that changes lifespan between genders.
16:16 < jrayhawk> The study demonstrates that it is  consistent effect even in R-selection species such as rodents.
16:16 < jrayhawk> er, it is not a consistent effect.
16:17 < jrayhawk> It is even less effective in K-selection species such as primates, and has not been demonstrated in humans.
16:18 < NewtonTrendy> i dont want to spam the room, but it seems to be saying that there is a large variation in lifespans on DR diets.
16:19 < NewtonTrendy> jrayhawk: ramadan
16:20 < jrayhawk> "Ramadan" is notably not Arabic for "randomized control trial".
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16:22 < jrayhawk> The meta-analysis demonstrates that, a-priori, calorie restriction is just as likely to decrease lifespan in R-selection species.
16:29 < jrayhawk> I have other complaints about SENS, such as all their research direction being something akin to, to adapt an analogy, putting the horses back in the barn, doing nothing about the doors, and, additionally, all the horses are on fire.
16:31 < jrayhawk> SENS in particular, I mean.
16:32 < jrayhawk> But I think such complaints are common enough that people have started allocating resources elsewhere anyway.
17:00 < fenn> the cages are to protect them from the savages outside https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gl3IgClWwAAG63I.jpg
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--- Log closed Fri Mar 14 00:00:45 2025