--- Log opened Mon Jun 30 00:00:27 2025
00:05 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
00:18 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:03 -!- etc-vi2 [~etc-vi@user/meow/girlchunks] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:05 -!- etc-vi [~etc-vi@user/meow/girlchunks] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
01:05 -!- etc-vi2 is now known as etc-vi
02:54 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
03:24 -!- delthas_ is now known as delthas
03:25 -!- delthas [16abab341f@2a01:4f9:c010:cf0b::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:25 -!- delthas__ [16abab341f@2a01:4f9:c010:cf0b::1] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:25 -!- delthas__ is now known as delthas
05:16 -!- TMM [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
05:16 -!- TMM [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:29 -!- gl00ten [~gl00ten@213.58.207.154] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:29 -!- gl00ten [~gl00ten@213.58.207.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:14 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-82-174.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Avoid fossil fuels and animal products. Have no/fewer children. Protest, elect sane politicians. Invest ecologically.]
07:14 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-82-174.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:38 < kanzure> hi
09:00 < hprmbridge> Katylase> hi!!! how are you?
09:01 < kanzure> all systems functional
09:04 < hprmbridge> Eli> It’s going to be illegal to practice medicine without ai. I asked my doctor friend and he said the robots just need to develop senses to do the differential diagnosis (touch, vision, etc…). Then, we need to teach ai not to glaze hypochondriacs and people with drug seeking behavior.
09:04 < hprmbridge> Eli> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1389275406825422918/IMG_1961.jpg?ex=6864070c&is=6862b58c&hm=436f44bea6bdeeeccc84aa5ec949966d006669c3d2a3ab3043a066aaa0e09e35&
09:07 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:07 < RangerMauve> Will the robots be better about false negatives? So many doctors screw over women that have serious issues (more so than men) and deny aid to folks. I worry LLMs trained on biased data will perpetuate and amplify biases but now with zero accountability.
09:07 < RangerMauve> Can an AI company have their medical license revoked?
09:08 < superkuh> re: biases due to training set, http://erewhon.superkuh.com/pictures/ai-copyright2.png
09:17 < L29Ah> Eli: what is this picture from?
09:22 < RangerMauve> SMBC
09:22 < RangerMauve> Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
09:22 < L29Ah> Eli's picture, not superkuh's
10:09 < kanzure> https://a16z.com/momentum-as-ai-moat/
10:09 < kanzure> https://andrewchen.substack.com/p/every-marketing-channel-sucks-right
10:11 < kanzure> hiring for two postdocs in the synthetic human genome project https://x.com/ProfTomEllis/status/1939693621466525754
10:20 < L29Ah> RangerMauve: was there ever any accountability for doctors who are not outright stupid or malicious?
10:23 < L29Ah> also, judging from life expectancies, women get better and increasingly better healthcare overall
11:52 < RangerMauve> L29Ah IMO even if there is not enough accountability with doctors it will get worse with automated systems since "AI" has been used as a way to divorce outcomes from accountability in other contexts. "I didn;t do it, the ai company messed up", "Our AI is fine the user messed up" goto 1;
11:54 < RangerMauve> I don't think it's fair to only focus on life expectancies when peoples quality of life can be impacted by biases. Another issue is medical trials underrepresent women a lot and a lot of medicine to do with womens bodies doesn't get pursued, which again will get worse with algorithmic amplification
11:54 < L29Ah> pretty sure the meatbag doctors' labor union lawyers are already working hard to ensure the AI™ doctors get all the scrutiny and accountability they can push
11:54 < RangerMauve> I suppose this could be improved by accounting for biases more in training and having paths for building accountability in the system, but I have little hope for that
11:55 < RangerMauve> YEah it'd be great if the AI companies could be sued for malpractice
12:00 < hprmbridge> kanzure> if the virtual cell narrative and plan turns out to be wrong or useless, then what should they pivot to?
12:19 < RangerMauve> kanzure Mind elaborating?
12:56 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has left #hplusroadmap [Disconnected: closed]
13:01 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-82-174.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Avoid fossil fuels and animal products. Have no/fewer children. Protest, elect sane politicians. Invest ecologically.]
13:01 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-82-174.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:21 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:22 < hprmbridge> Eli> Theoretically yes. I think It would be like having an entire team of medical specialists  who do nothing but consume papers all day. From the image, they basically claim to be demolishing physicians and for a cost that is vastly cheaper than physicians. There would still likely be arguments about which “correct” data to put in the artificial intelligence just like there is with data to train
14:22 < hprmbridge> Eli> doctors organic intelligence. Yes there do seem to be issues with women’s healthcare. HRT is a super controversial topic for example. And if men had menopause you wonder if we would have more data on it.
14:23 < hprmbridge> Eli> https://microsoft.ai/new/the-path-to-medical-superintelligence/
14:26 < hprmbridge> Eli> By cheaper than physicians I mean they are not just ordering all the tests possible to rule out long tail diagnoses. I’m assuming the subscription fee and reduced liability would be lower than doctors to begin with. So then you have reduced costs because it’s also ordering less unnecessary tests. And they gave different amounts of money that could be spent on tests that seem to improve diagnosis
14:26 < hprmbridge> Eli> in a way that seems like it’s  monotonically rising sort of?
14:26 < L29Ah> i'd be critical of that plot coming from Microsoft
14:32 < hprmbridge> Eli> We will have to see. Financial pressures are going to force this stuff to be used somewhere in real life. I think people don’t think this is going to happen cause liability and regulations and stuff. But for people low on resources I’m wondering if demand is going to overrule all these arguments.
14:35 < hprmbridge> Eli> It’s pretty wild that the version that spent $0 on tests already demolished the physicians ordering $3000 of tests. I don’t see how they are going to hold this back from the public. I could be wrong. We will see how it plays out.
14:49 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
15:02 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:42 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-82-174.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:47 -!- stipa_ [~stipa@user/stipa] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:48 -!- stipa_ [~stipa@user/stipa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:48 -!- stipa_ [~stipa@user/stipa] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:50 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
15:50 -!- stipa_ is now known as stipa
15:58 < juri__> HRT is super controvercial? oh god, the horror.
16:24 < hprmbridge> Eli> For postmenopausal women? Apparently it’s a big scandal. There’s was something called the women’s health initiative that cost like $1 billion? Anyway the claim is that it was done wrong and most doctors weren’t updated. People who are smarter than me have said this. I haven’t been able to look into it myself. People who are doctors have to browbeat other doctors into giving HRT because it’s still
16:24 < hprmbridge> Eli> taught HRT causes cancer.
16:24 < hprmbridge> Eli>
16:24 < hprmbridge> Eli> If men went through menopause and couldn’t have sex without pain after age 50 it would probably have been figured out one way or the other by now
16:26 < L29Ah> men just die and it haven't been figured out by now why
16:46 < hprmbridge> Eli> The lifespan of a species is the result of an optimization problem solved by nature
16:56 < L29Ah> yeah, like all the other features of a species, so?
18:08 -!- juri__ [~juri@implicitcad.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
18:20 -!- juri_ [~juri@implicitcad.org] has joined #hplusroadmap
19:13 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Universal pre-training by iterated random computation" https://arxiv.org/abs/2506.20057
19:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Learning universal predictors" https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.14953
19:34 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://doriantaylor.com/softwares-ailing-mythology
19:40 < hprmbridge> kanzure> film production costs shifted to pre-production because film material was literally expensive to shoot on and consume, plus expensive human actor coordination to all be available for scenes
19:41 < hprmbridge> kanzure> whereas source cose is cheap to store and have multiple iterations. there's a labor cost for production of source code, but for some reason it's not treated the same way?
20:24 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has quit [Quit: From sea to sea, cold and unforgiving. So is its climate. 2025-07-01 03:24:05:331]
21:27 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-82-174.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:35 -!- gptpaste [~x@193.29.58.204] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:35 -!- AugustaAva [~x@193.29.58.204] has joined #hplusroadmap