--- Log opened Wed Jul 23 00:00:49 2025
00:32 < L29Ah> they can just run storage as a servise with sia
00:33 < hprmbridge> kanzure> huh, plaid is in trouble https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkauflin/2025/07/21/why-jpmorgan-is-hitting-fintechs-with-stunning-new-fees-for-data-access/
00:59 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> Are there any actual countries where they add thiamine to all alcohol?
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01:35 < faceface> kanzure: a while back you wanted a solution for 10k+ bookmarks? Is there any 'quick open' for chrome tabs? I want a desktop shortcut that can jump me to teh tab I want without switching to the right desktop, selecting the right window, finding the right tab... I know there is that drop down triangle top left of chrome, but I want something like "ctrl-f gma tab" to get to gmail
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02:39 < fenn> "Fenbendazole restricts cancer cell feeding with sugar via restricting the uptake of glucose, reducing the quantity of GLUT transporters (channels that bring glucose into the cancerous cells from the blood) as well as the enzyme Hexokinase II. Hexokinase II is crucial for the survival of cancer cells. It supports the tumours and helps them thrive via producing additional sugar and speeding up
02:39 < fenn> lactic acidosis inside the extracellular matrix."
02:40 < fenn> "...demonstrates moderate affinity for mammalian tubulin and exerts cytotoxicity to human cancer cells at micromolar concentrations. Simultaneously, it caused mitochondrial translocation of p53"
02:41 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> I'll be a bit happier when cancer's cured
02:42 < fenn> youtube comment (quantumkookaburra) says prostate cancer actually feeds on fat so keto is not advised in that case
02:43 < fenn> he also says cancer stem cells can use regular oxidative metabolism
02:47 < fenn> "pathways that regulate CSCs, such as WNT/β-Catenin, hedgehog, Notch, NF-κB, JAK/STAT, TGF-β, PI3K/AKT, PPAR"
02:51 < fenn> sounds like it's complicated
02:54 < fenn> .t https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-024-02551-2
02:54 < saxo> Implantation of engineered adipocytes suppresses tumor progression in cancer models | Nature Biotechnology
02:55 < fenn> or, for dum dums https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze2rmsLiTfA
02:57 < fenn> doesn't work on high fat diet (in mice)
03:06 < fenn> "the implant is stable and can be extracted after implantation without leaving residual organoids"
03:10 < fenn> the first author died :(
03:29 < fenn> 6-Diazo-5-oxo-L-norleucine is a glutamine antagonist used as inhibitor of different glutamine utilizing enzymes by covalent binding. see also JHU-083, a prodrug
04:38 < hprmbridge> kanzure> faceface: the best way to do that is to not use tabs. use windows. andytoshi has a tagging wm setup with keyboard shortcuts for switching to windows based off of tags. there might be a with modern chrome through an API to search tabs, but I haven't looked.
04:39 < L29Ah> i tried using tens of browser windows and they were much slower to switch than tens of tabs :(
04:39 < L29Ah> not chrome though
05:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> ahh another great day to be stupid on the internet https://x.com/kanzure/status/194798965073317905611
05:10 < L29Ah> Invalid tweet ID
05:10 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://x.com/kanzure/status/1947989650733179056
05:14 < fenn> can't believe we still haven't cured HIV, it's been over 40 years
05:15 < fenn> not even a vaccine
05:15 < fenn> what an absolute disaster
05:18 < L29Ah> can't believe we still haven't cured common cold
05:20 < fenn> indeed
05:20 < L29Ah> someday i'll have to organize a clinical study of hyperthermic therapy for unspecific early stage upper respiratory infections, but i don't have access to them patients and facilities, and there can't be any blinding with a distributed study design that is manageable to pull off without those :/
05:21 < fenn> you can't blind hyperthermic therapy under any conditions
05:22 < L29Ah> but you can assign people to placebo groups, additionally people aren't great at telling minor differences in temperatures apart
05:25 < fenn> https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chasing%20the%20bug these people should be used for HIV vaccine experimentation, and yes it's a real thing
05:25 < fenn> IRB "ethics" gets in the way of this
05:26 < L29Ah> anyway i believe it is a promising direction, but study design and funding will be tricky
05:26 < fenn> isn't this just sauna?
05:27 < L29Ah> saunas suck: air has very low heat conductivity and adds uncontrolled sweating interference, compared to hot bath immersion for example
05:28 < fenn> the variable under test is core body temperature or what
05:29 < L29Ah> the variable under control, yes
05:29 < fenn> upper respiratory infections are unsurprisingly in tissue exposed to air
05:29 < jrayhawk> tabs-vs-windows is going to depend on how smart the combination of browser and compositor is about negotiating render shutoffs on unpresented framebuffers
05:30 < fenn> firefox has switch-to-open-tab suggestions in the url bar
05:30 < L29Ah> building saunas and figuring good protocols for reproducible heating is much more involved than bathing at a fixed water temperature and letting the circulatory system do the rest
05:31 < fenn> how about breathing hot air from a hair dryer
05:31 < L29Ah> sounds interesting
05:32 < fenn> i think it would be hard to get the humidity high enough to not dry out mucus membranes and cause damage
05:38 < fenn> "participants receiving vaccines in the RV 144 trial who produced IgG antibodies against the V2 loop of the HIV outer envelope were 43% less likely to become infected than those who did not, while IgA production was associated with a 54% greater risk of infection than those who did not produce the antibodies (but not worse than placebo)."
05:38 < fenn> it seems like there's slow progress
05:41 < fenn> "Before this vaccine trial was initiated, an opinion letter from 22 established HIV researchers had been published in the journal Science calling into question the rationale for this study" (the only partially successful vaccine so far)
05:46 < fenn> oh that was 2003-2006
05:52 < fenn> "a genetically modified form of HIV has been created in which the virus's codons (a sequence of three nucleotides that form genetic code) are manipulated to rely on an unnatural amino acid for proper protein translation, which allows it to replicate. Because this amino acid is foreign to the human body, the virus cannot reproduce."
05:53 < fenn> that's clever, and could be used with just about any virus
05:54 < fenn> since it's a retrovirus you'd also want to rotate a bunch of codons so it can't steal the correct sub-sequence from the real virus and get a head start
05:57 < fenn> you could also engineer a live vaccine to depend on various inducers like tetracycline, which you turn off after you get an immune response
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07:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what IRB was it that signed off on coercing these people into using IRBs? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2451865418302023
07:20 < fenn> it's IRBs all the way down
07:37 < hprmbridge> kanzure> libre-soc grant funding has been terminated.
07:38 < hprmbridge> kanzure> unclear to me what that means, if they had any funds left that were clawedback, or if they were funded by ongoing grant distributions
07:40 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "MRI shows cerebral blood supply damage and several small holes"; various medical/psycho drama entangled with the grant situation i think? very unclear to me.
07:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_French_Anderson "His final project before he was arrested was the discovery and identification of a factor in the serum of irradiated animals that could rescue lethally irradiated animals even 24 hours after the irradiation"
08:54 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "defies any rules and systemization" is just another way of saying you are giving up on the problem https://mises.org/mises-daily/risk-uncertainty-and-economic-organization
08:55 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Discovery and Creation: Alternative Theories of Entrepreneurial Action,” Strategic Entrepreneurship Journal (2007) https://effectuation.org/hubfs/Journal%20Articles/2017/05/Alvarez_et_al-2007-Strategic_Entrepreneurship_Journal-1.pdf
09:10 < L29Ah> > Why can’t a central-planning board mimic the operations of entrepreneurs?
09:10 < L29Ah> it can, but it can't have the distributed knowledge, nor there are as many central-planning boards as entrepreneurs all over the places to exhaust all the local desire gradients
09:11 < L29Ah> the "skin in the game" factor is impactful too
09:12 < L29Ah> as opposed to "design by committee"
11:44 < hprmbridge> kanzure> IIRC, jiankui claimed to have sought some form of informed consent, which was later disputed but that might be no true scotsman and/or sysphean's moving goal posts.
11:44 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what I don't entirely recall is whether JK claimed to have institutional approval-- I think he said so?
11:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> anyway, my reply to that X.com IRB-enjoyer: For someone like JK who sought and received approval including (at least some form of an attempt at) consent, after the fact apparently the institutions can throw you under the bus anyway: their approval is apparently revocable, and therefore worthless. Conformance must be rewarded with protection and not with betrayal. Otherwise, the social contract, to
11:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> go a long with IRBs and (societal)institutional approval, breaks down. The contract is simple: go through this process and we will endorse you and your efforts as ethical. If you happen to believe in the effectiveness or benefits of IRBs, then the betrayal against JK should greatly concern you, if at least it hadn't happened in China, because the IRB serves no remaining role for the ethical
11:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> researcher other than federal funding (or FDA Investigation) approval. Outside academia and FDA mandate, researchers see this broken contract and won't push for commercial IRB review which is bad for IRB-value believers. Btw what was bad about unethical research wasn't that federal dollars funded it... That's like the least interesting aspect...  Any ethical independent researcher can simply
11:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> continue to be ethical even without subscribing to an IRB regime, especially if it offers no protection or value to the ethical researcher, and unethical researchers will continue to evade, lie or cheat regardless of going through IRB.
11:46 < hprmbridge> kanzure> revocable ethical approval is sorta funny..is it actually ethical or not? if an assertion of positive ethics cannot immutably survive into the future, then what the hell are the ethics people even doing? just vibes?
11:48 < hprmbridge> kanzure> the "what was bad about unethical research wasn't that federal dollars funded it" line was supposed to be in reply to his statement "Thanks to the Tuskegee syphilis study, we have IRBs" but i did not make this clear enough.
11:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> ah here it is:
11:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Ben: He, in a sense, had an agenda. In particular, he really wanted to talk about his ethics and consent process. The response to his work at the summit and after had been that he must have botched the ethics process because it's "obviously unethical". This was something that he was genuinely interested in setting the record straight on, because he had done his level best to do the ethics process
11:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> right and dot his i's and cross his t's. When push came to shove, the ethics committee at the hospital that had approved his experiment later denied that they had approved it. There is no credibility as far as I can tell to that denial. They were just running for the exits."
11:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> from https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/makepeoplebetter/episode-001/
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12:48 < kanzure> https://libre-chip.org/ seems to be the libre-soc successor project
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12:56 < kanzure> https://archive.fosdem.org/2024/schedule/event/fosdem-2024-2215-an-introduction-to-formal-verification-of-digital-circuits/
12:58 < kanzure> libre-chip architecture https://libre-chip.org/first_arch/index.html
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13:09 < kanzure> a proposal for a "spectre-resistant speculative processor" https://web.archive.org/web/20201021124234/https://bugs.libre-soc.org/show_bug.cgi?id=209 
14:06 < kanzure> "You can be hodling for the most selfish and miserly Scrooge McDuck reasons... but if you're a collectivist, you should notice that you're actually increasing the marginal purchasing power of everyone else's money it. You're doing them a favor by hodling. If you are not a collectivist, then I also think you can make plenty of selfish cases for why you ought to want people around you to be ...
14:06 < kanzure> ...better off anyway."</bitstein>
14:21 < TMA> what about hodling zero balance? is it also beneficial to others?
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14:24 < L29Ah> yes, you can do free work too that can be about equally beneficial to others as getting paid but not spending the earnings
14:26 < L29Ah> and you can do things that don't usually offer good payments but are still immensely useful for the humanity at large, like all those underfunded biomedical research venues, as a bonus
14:28 < kanzure> TMA: probably not, because there is infinitely many zero balances i guess?
14:29 < L29Ah> 14:31:24]<fenn> how about breathing hot air from a hair dryer
14:29 < L29Ah> https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6483632/ doesn't seem to work, we should focus on core temperature
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21:06 < jrayhawk> deflation makes investment in useful human endeavours less attractive, and decreasing liquid supply also makes a currency more prone to supply shocks that force large transactors to "buy high and sell low" for lack of liquidity
21:09 < hprmbridge> setecastronomy1891> 🤨
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21:11 < hprmbridge> setecastronomy1891> I think there’s a better way to say this, but yes.
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22:38 < hprmbridge> Eli> Whoa, I had not heard this. So he got approval and the Chinese reneged. Incredible.
22:38 < hprmbridge> kanzure> he gave me a like on that tweet haha
22:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure> possibly while moping about cathy
22:40 < hprmbridge> Eli> Do you think he controls his X account? I was assuming it was Cathy the whole time. And he’s just the social media influencer model
22:43 < hprmbridge> Eli> I guess I’m asking cause he liked one of my tweets too. Then his account tweeted out my music video of him. And they pulled it later. In my head I was kind of thinking i probably offended him somewhat because my videos of him weren’t 100% flattering.
22:43 < hprmbridge> Eli>
22:43 < hprmbridge> Eli> He wouldn’t have gone to jail if he had chosen something other than the ccr5 receptor!
22:44 < hprmbridge> kanzure> dunno, sorry.
22:48 < hprmbridge> Eli> Well, looks like Cathy and jk are “pursuing different paths now”. science celebrity drama …
23:01 < hprmbridge> nmz787> All these pronouns/propernames... I'm confused
23:02 < hprmbridge> nmz787> jk != j/k
23:21 < fenn> where does the string "jk" come from? it's not that hard to type his name
23:23 < hprmbridge> kanzure> comes from speech
23:25 < fenn> i guess it's just a chinese thing
23:26 < fenn> each character gets a roman letter when abbreviated
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23:35 < fenn> "continue to be ethical even without subscribing to an IRB regime, especially if it offers no protection or value to the ethical researcher" is unrealistic. this is like trying to keep your in-game currency illiquid and separate from the trade network. eventually people will find informal ad-hoc ways to privilege people they consider more ethical, but at least it will be on a distributed basis
23:35 < fenn> where more subjective compute is available to be thrown at the judgement
23:36 < fenn> given that people are going to trade on ethical behavior anyway, you might as well make it formal and explicitly award funding or whatever on that basis
23:37 < fenn> also these people aren't thinking rationally, this is all basically a reglious argument for them
23:39 < fenn> they should be arguing for laws against behavior that results in bad consequences, not IRBs
23:40 < fenn> like a doctor has a duty to cause no harm, but that's not actually a law?
23:41 < hprmbridge> kanzure> If an ethics committee declares something ethical, but later has to reverse the proclamation, then if anything it shows that the practice of ethics is completely bullshit and made up
23:42 < hprmbridge> kanzure> if it's ethical, then the passage of time should not change whether the previous ethical protection incantation still works or not
23:42 < fenn> i've heard that jiankui he or someone he was associated with had forged the ethics review or something, how do we know this didn't happen?
23:42 < hprmbridge> kanzure> it's he said she said at this point because he claims to have sought and received approval
23:43 < fenn> and nobody can be bothered to set up public key digital signature culture
23:43 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what seems more likely? that a chinese citizen working in academia and also in the US academia suddenly went completely rogue? uhuh.
23:43 < fenn> that's a compelling argument
23:43 < hprmbridge> kanzure> or did an ethics committee have to cover its ass?
23:44 < fenn> also the sudden tone shift in chinese media in the week following
23:44 < hprmbridge> kanzure> everyone on that committee should have been fired either way because the question of their integrity is unaswerablele and their failure to use cryptography damning  (although I do think that within the ethical framework, you do have to protect your ethics committees somehow?)
23:45 < fenn> they want to maintain unanswerability and revocability
23:45 < fenn> because "higher ups" might override and it would cause strife and disharmony if different elements of the state were seen to be in disagreement
23:47 < fenn> i think really they just didn't like that it wasn't their idea to start with, and suddenly they're taking heat from western academia and journalizmos for allowing this to happen
23:47 < fenn> individuals aren't supposed to make decisions of international import
23:48 < hprmbridge> kanzure> wasn't whose idea?
23:48 < fenn> unnamed unanswerable higher-up decision makers
23:48 < fenn> senior communist party officials
23:49 < hprmbridge> kanzure> oh, sure, very unclear how high the original approval came from, might have been very local
23:49 < fenn> if you phrase it a certain way it doesn't sound like a big deal. we're doing some gene therapy to help prevent HIV infections
23:50 < hprmbridge> kanzure> and it's not a big deal anyway
23:50 < fenn> that's why we're still talking about it years later :)
23:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> mostly the international reaction....
23:51 < fenn> i mean in the grand scheme of things a few kids dying is no big deal
23:52 < fenn> look at the daily atrocities in the news
23:52 < hprmbridge> kanzure> they didn't even die
23:52 < fenn> but a REPUTATION was harmed!
23:52 < fenn> very serious
23:53 < hprmbridge> kanzure> can't have the slightest chance of US federal funding for biology of being harmed
23:53 < fenn> well how's that going
23:53 < fenn> leftist overreach has resulted in NSF and NIH budgets slashed by half
23:54 < hprmbridge> kanzure> their instinct to appease US religious taxpayers or voters is likely correct for their self-preservation
23:57 < fenn> oh NSF is back to $10B
23:58 < hprmbridge> kanzure> is that all? yeesh.
23:59 < fenn> yeah it's pathetic
23:59 < fenn> but cutting a whole $5B of that would have had huge effects on science
--- Log closed Thu Jul 24 00:00:50 2025