--- Log opened Sun Aug 10 00:00:06 2025
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03:45 < L29Ah> in .ru disassembly for interop and porting are explicitly allowed in the law, i wonder if you can get away in US court telling that you got that spec from your russian contractor
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05:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CYN7swrefEss4e3Qe/childhoods-of-exceptional-people
06:28 < TMA> L29Ah: maybe? but then you might get charged for circumventing sanctions
06:31 < TMA> or maybe not, because of some legal theory that will say, if you do something in the US based on something done abroad, you are liable for everything done abroad be a-OK with US laws as well. as this does not circumvent ne bis in idem, it is perfectly fine to prosecute you for things abroad-legally done abroas
06:31 < TMA> law is complex and basically unknowable in its implications
06:34 < hprmbridge> kanzure> looking up the law is often net harmful
06:34 < TMA> the only true rule is "legal is whatever the court says it was legal"
06:48 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.theintrinsicperspective.com/p/how-geniuses-used-to-be-raised
06:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Let us call this aristocratic tutoring, to distinguish it from a tutor you meet in a coffeeshop to go over SAT math problems while the clock ticks down. It’s also different than “tiger parenting,” which is specifically focused around the resume padding that’s needed for kids to meet the impossible requirements for high-tier colleges. Aristocratic tutoring was not focused on measurables.
06:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> Historically, it usually involved a paid adult tutor, who was an expert in the field, spending significant time with a young child or teenager, instructing them but also engaging them in discussions, often in a live-in capacity, fostering both knowledge but also engagement with intellectual subjects and fields."
06:53 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Darwin, at the age of only 16 and already in university, personally hired John Edmonstone, a former slave and black freedman, to give him lessons on taxidermy outside of his classes" is that kid okay
06:55 < L29Ah> 15:28:34]<TMA> L29Ah: maybe? but then you might get charged for circumventing sanctions
06:55 < L29Ah> not a contractor but pro bono then, or just some russian put it on github under a MIT licence
07:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Today, tutoring is seen mostly as a corrective to failures within the bureaucratic structures of eduction, like an intervention to help out a course, grade, or test.4 In general, those doing well in school don’t get tutoring—it’s like we’re applying the secret genius sauce solely to the kids who aren’t going to be geniuses."
07:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "A common SF trope is that a telepath’s life is misery, constantly swamped by unwanted input from random minds. We are all that telepath now."
07:10 < L29Ah> pretty sure rich people put their kids on personal education, don't they
07:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> you often can't buy the right thing. it's just not available, no matter how much money you have.
07:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> you can hire 1 million teachers but they are all going to be slop produced by our modern education system
07:12 < hprmbridge> kanzure> if you hire a "tutor", you will get SAT test prep
07:13 < L29Ah> you just hire that nobel laureate or whatever, no need for the person to carry "i'm a teacher" armband
07:13 < L29Ah> if the person is bad at teaching you attach a child psychologist to one
07:13 < hprmbridge> kanzure> many of the nobel prize winners are literally lecturers or at least indoctrinated into lecturing
07:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> you what?
07:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what do you mean?
07:16 < L29Ah> i mean there are people who are bad at teaching children, often because they are used to their specialized scientist peers and expect other sorts of performance from the person they communicate to, and aren't ready to handle, say, attention lapses, and you can have a separate person to observe, identify, discuss and solve the problems specific to education of young people
07:18 < L29Ah> and professors doing science with peers aren't in their lecturer mode, and they shouldn't be during personal education
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07:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "A tutored student will have their thinking corrected much more frequently than a student sitting in a classroom." possibly 10x difference or more in feedback rate.
09:05 < hprmbridge> kanzure> i don't think semantic search is enough for the logs.
11:18 < hprmbridge> Eli> I don https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1404167118790066288/dna_right_handed.png?ex=689a3409&is=6898e289&hm=cea92598d7031829672893235e59caaeeb7ca99c4d8aee0643d7ed13d5492923&
12:21 < jrayhawk> https://www.palladiummag.com/2023/06/06/school-is-not-enough/
12:57 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "school is useless and child labor is actually morally good" okay, but (as written) not actionable.
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16:08 < hprmbridge> kanzure> odd argument about superintelligence multi-agent scenarios with property rights as a stable equipib5 https://x.com/RokoMijic/status/1953974265738301549
16:09 < hprmbridge> kanzure> er, equilibrium
16:50 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> Has anyone tried using AI's to predict the outcome of clinical trials? Give them all possible relevant factors and have them guess the outcome, Test them on data from previous trials?
16:54 < hprmbridge> kanzure> no, absolutely nobody in the world is trying to apply AI to clinical trials, and even if they were, then it's 100% definitely not a waste of time
17:17 < fenn> roko's argument is actually an argument against "Pause AI" and similar. it's worded as "I believe this is what will happen" but it should be seen as "this is what we should try to make happen instead of coordinating to (unintentionally) make the bad thing happen"
17:18 < fenn> we should be removing all barriers to competition to ensure that no one agent gets a monopoly on the future
17:21 < fenn> ok he gets there in the end
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17:30 < jrayhawk> yes; the properties of "morality" and "expanding inductive capacity" that emerge from competitive multi-agent systems are the only patterns of humanity that matter in the long run, and it is ridiculous to increase an eternity of singleton risk just to buy humanity a decade of implausible tragedy-of-the-commons disequilibria monopoly-on-violence singularity-prevention.
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18:55 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "But it turns out that a mile away, behind a high wall of hedges, the billionaire and his wife, Priscilla Chan, were running a private school out of a house at their Palo Alto compound for two of their daughters and a dozen other children. And they were doing it in violation of city code."
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19:14 < hprmbridge> Eli> The reason medicine/biotech moves so slowly is because we can’t model humans/cells on a chip. That’s why we have to run the trials. Too many variables, and they are pretty nonlinear. Just my opinion, could be wrong one day. Humans are non-ergodic.
19:15 < L29Ah> MuaddibLLM: was the Waco compound raising talented children?
19:15 < MuaddibLLM> L29Ah: No—Branch Davidians at Waco were an apocalyptic sect centered on Koresh’s control, with indoctrination and minimal homeschooling reported, not any talent-cultivating program.
19:17 < hprmbridge> kanzure> wait. what's the point of the cult if it offers no clairvoyance or talent buffs?
19:23 < jrayhawk> A driving sense of purpose, meaning, and belonging, typicaly.
20:29 < fenn> sex and money, usually
20:40 < fenn> i do like his style though https://www.domusweb.it/content/dam/domusweb/en/architecture/2011/02/15/the-rudolf-steiner-goetheanum/big_325380_7399_DO110206009_UPD3.jpg
20:41 < fenn> it's a proper star trek TNG set piece
20:41 < fenn> ironic
20:43 < fenn> when a kooky woo school empowers a student to make real decisions about the school it's a "scandal" because they bring the woo into the justification for delegating power to stakeholders, but that's still better than the usual practice of forcing children to behave according to your will and offering no alternative
20:46 < fenn> (i am talking about some waldorf drama from the 70s which is apparently the worst they could dig up)
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23:23 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> I agree, but I hope we're both wrong and there's some shortcuts
23:28 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> You may not need to model every last molecule in the body. The ai may be able to learn to model them as systems, heurestics, approximations better than humans could create. Maybe. Maybe not.
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--- Log closed Mon Aug 11 00:00:07 2025